Jim Hopper

Mm-hmm.

Because once we started doing what they recommended, for instance, David Lisak, Jim Hopper himself from Harvard, who was a, an instructor in the medical school, he even talks about how the questions that we're asking are damaging and inappropriate.

But once we start recognizing that there are appropriate ways to ask questions that not only don't re-traumatize victims and survivors, it actually opens the door for them to tell the story they want to tell, their experience, but it also enables the person to talk more.

Mm-hmm.