Oh, it's just

You know what? It was like this culmination of things.

So I was, I would have been still 18 years old, almost turning 19.

I had my first year in Naval ROGC Marine Corps option.

And I mean, I had made it the first year, but a lot of things were just, it was so hard because like the other, there was only two females that were like me that went in the other one quit.

So then I was like the sole one.

And then the other thing HR is when I'm going through this Naval ROTC experience, the people who are the Marine options, the people who chose the Marine Corps route, a majority of the people that I was training with had been Marines for four to six years.

Talk to us about courageous connections.

Not laziness, not in the idea of, I don't want to, it's too hard, but the fact that I am satisfied and happy.

It's different for every single person.

Let me just share a perspective that comes from positive psychology.

So first of all, if people are completely happy with their life and they're comfortable, I would say, I'm not the person to help them because they don't want more.

So I talk to people who they're satisfied with their life.

It's comfortable.

It's fine.

fun things that you've learned what is something that someone who's listening who isn't a marine not an executive or elite athlete that you work for and work with and what does bravery look like in their everyday world as for their family work or relationships that they can start implementing today or this week that can really maybe get that motor or the gear yeah

I mean, does that play into your work?

Yeah, I'd say the way that there's an intersection between abundance and what I teach in my book is I talk about a brave tribe.

So in order to build the skill of bravery, we talk about we need to focus on our mindset, which is I call it a warrior mindset, just so that everyone thinks it's really tough and kind of badass to have like a brave mindset, not sometimes when you say positive mindset, half the people like roll their eyes.

So we first start with cognitive psychology of how to really master our mindset to be brave.

And then we get into behavioral psychology and then we get into social psychology.

So within social psychology, that's where I address abundance a little bit.

But what I teach is sometimes in order for us to achieve our goals, we sometimes hesitate or we're scared of admitting that we don't have all the answers.

I think that would be helpful.

... what does that mean?

mean?Let me give a couple of practical examples.

Like one...

Here, here's common things I hear from leaders as, as I work with them.

Number one is the fear of uncertainty.

So we don't know what's happening with volatile times.

In the military, in the Marine Corps we called it VUCA, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity.

[laughs]

From cybercrime to digital bullying to school and public shooting, does bravery look different when we have to be hyperware-- aware of everything around us? And are our devices, social media, emerging AI, making it harder to be brave today? Is, is it a different context that you're talking about this topic?

Yeah.

In 2026, bravery is more important than ever, and I'll give you two reasons why.

Number one, if we look at the messaging that we see in the media, the messaging is that being uncomfortable is bad, that we want...

If there's anything that makes us feel anxious, then what we should do is we should avoid it.

And stress is horrible.

It's gonna kill us, so we want to avoid it at, at all costs.

What do leaders miss about being brave?

Is that what you see?

So I think what, what comes to me as you describe that is sometimes we, we allow decisions, the decisions we make on what we do, to be guided by our feelings or our motivation.

So I think that's where the flaw is.

Sometimes you go like, "I'm just gonna wake up in the morning, like, what do I feel like doing? Well, I don't feel like working out, so I'm not gonna work out, and I don't feel like getting the work done, and I don't feel like, I'm not motivated to fold the clothes." And motivation is overrated.

Um, and as you talk about that tension, you kind of know you should fold the clothes, but you don't feel like it.

And so, uh, this is so central, too, and I'm gonna cite a couple researchers here.

So, um, you know, f- I'd say first and, I wanna first cite Roy Baumeister, his research, and he, he, he's done research on, um, basically willpower or motivation, right? You know, and, and what he says is we've got a limited amount of psychological resources each day.

Like that.

Mm-hmm

... and wanted to start a family and get married.

So I decided it would be better to get out.

So I was in corporate America for about 14 years before I made another brave move, starting my own company.

Um, and then going back to school at 48 years old, going back to school, another brave move, and that's where I discovered the science behind everything I had experienced.

So now I'm on a mission to help people, [exhales] you know, view fear as a signpost to move toward it, because getting through it's gonna make you so much stronger.

Because so many people, [exhales] they feel really uncomfortable, and they feel scared, and they're like, "This, this is a sign that something's wrong-

And so how do, how do we, in the moment, are there, um, embodiment practices? How- what do we do in the moment that we're feeling afraid?