But what are some of the situations that you experienced that led to the problem of you're holding it wrong?

Yeah, sure.

So I can talk about two examples kind of at Clio.

So the first one was we had kind of a central monolith database that was huge, and we acquired a different company that was really-- or a different product that was very marketing focused.

So in both cases, we had, like, these user entities.

So we had a users, users tables, organization tables, you know, the first two things that you probably build.

And, um, two-- these are two very separate products, and so we wanted to make sure it's seamless with SSO and, and everything.

Talking through a bit more of that product focus, where Kafka is this powerful substrate, but is very easy to shoot yourself in the foot if you don't know exactly what you're doing, that provides a challenge of how do you build an appropriate abstraction layer that makes it more approachable and easier to incorporate in these product-focused features without inadvertently going down a path where maybe you have too many topics and not enough consumers, or you haven't sharded it appropriately ahead of time, and how you can deal with some of those early decisions that can have long-term consequences.