Did you know much about it that first time? I knew bugger all about

it, Sal.

I went to that commission with a sense that I was carrying a huge responsibility, but that at the time I didn't even know how I would fill four and a half thousand words on the subject.

And I had a lot of the old sort of stereotypes and tropes that people in the community still have that, you know, this is just... a situation where some men get out of control, you know, come home on a Friday night after having too much booze and beat up their partners, you know, and I had no sense that underlying domestic violence was this insidious pattern of power and control that we now refer to as coercive control.

I couldn't even ask the right questions.

I'm sure you've had this similar situation where you feel like I'm not even starting in the right places.

And it was frontline workers and victim survivors and just so many people that I spoke to who put me right in the nicest possible way, sort of firm but fair, and where I started to ask the right questions.

fear of or inability to deal with rejection? Is it power for the sake of power? Like what is the atom here at the centre of all

So maybe we can start with the roses right

now.

So I would say, look, you know, as always, it's a mixed bag.

Um, I think, you know, as I was saying, just, you know, before we hit record, it's really difficult speaking to American listeners at the moment about progress being made in this area in Australia, because I just, I really understand and just feel so deeply how horrifying it is to see the backlash take hold all the way to the level of the White House and how that's undoing policies across the United States.

But on the same token, I think, you know, the one thing that helps protect people in the United States from a hostile environment takeover is the power of the individual states to do things.

And it makes it more difficult to get change across the entire country.

But it also means that while things are not so great at the federal level, you can still be working at the state level.

And the reality is that there is a place that no longer there's evidence that shows us that that doesn't actually change a person's traits, right? Yeah.

Is it thought that there's, you know, whether it's causation, we don't know, but is there a correlation with alcohol use and these sporting events, and that's why we see that increase? Do you have any data on that?

If you think about the combination of alcohol, gambling, and the heightened emotions of a sporting event, of a big, of a big sporting event, um, which is, you know, of hyper-masculine-That combination is really volatile.

And I mean, I remember reading this report that was, um, it came out of Papua New Guinea, actually, a big rugby country, and it was a report of, um, of women there who were talking about the way that violence followed those big games.

And the women said, basically, whether they win or lose, the men would either celebrate or grieve on their bodies.

That really was such an eye-opener for me because, you know, I guess a lot of what I thought is, well, maybe you s- you see this more with men whose team has lost, you know, and they're processing that shame and upset, and they take it out on their partner.

But I mean, it's not just domestic violence that goes up during these times.

In State of Origin nights, you get a 70% increase in non-domestic violence related assault.

Can you talk us through some of the things that the expert panel recommended around alcohol reform?

Tell me which institutions you think are failing women the most at the moment.

So if we look at particularly this call for a royal commission, which is specifically into femicide, the institution that comes to the top of the list is police.

They are totally inconsistent in terms of their response.

There is a toxic masculinist culture across the police force, where you see some exceptions, um, in some local area commands and amongst some police, but that is the overarching culture.

You have really persistent levels of racism and low levels of understanding of the crime that they are spending the vast majority of their time policing.

Police spend on average about 40 to 60% of their time.

In some areas, that percentage is much higher.

So why do you think there is this resistance federally to taking that on?

Um, and so having that sustainability with the glass bottles, is that something that really chimes with the area that you live in?

Absolutely.

And I think, honestly, we're just so grateful to, um, the Raglan community.

Uh, truly, if we didn't have them behind us, it would just...

It would make it so much harder.

Um, and it...

Like, you know, we sell, um, between 60 and 70 liters a day at, um, Four Square, just at the local Four Square, and, um, and so that just shows the s- the amount of support that people have.

So what plans do you have for the future?