Mm-hmm.

I was like, "I need to get to a place where I can be more visionary." And also I just need help.

If we're gonna grow into a viable company that's long-term, obviously I'm gonna need some help.

And so I thought, "Well, who would it be? Who do I need?" Probably operations person first, maybe then finance, because, you know, you really...

And they're similar, so, you know, you can find somebody who has kind of both sides of that.

They really work well together.

And in fact, even at Jeni's right now, we're not a small company, but our chief financial officer is also our chief operation officer because...

Yeah

What was going on at that time?

There were a few things going on.

First of all, I...

I called one day the New York Times because I thought we were doing such cool ice creams in Ohio that they should just know about it.

So I called them.

We didn't have a PR company for decades.

So I called them and I asked to speak with Florence Fabricant, the writer of New Things, and I was telling her about what we were doing.

What did that crisis force you to do that you may have never done otherwise and ultimately made the company stronger?

W- what, do, do you, do you think there's something to that, Jenny, or do you disagree?

I really do.

If you go super deep on the seed oil thing, that science has not reached consensus yet, so it, it can be fad-like right now, and so you don't wanna just be known for that.

People who follow that will find you.

They'll see tallow, they'll see avocado oil, and they'll find you.

Um, but I will say there is another component or an element that you, that, that to think about, which is, you know, you're not just moving people from one fry company to another.

In Jenny's it was the same way because your customer when you're in grocery is not their customer.

Yeah.

Oh

... understatement.

He was violent.

And she had a baby, and we were sometimes running from him, so we would have to go, like, hide.That was, you know, also reality in my life then.

But I loved working.

And so I would work all the time.

So I didn't do well in school.

Mm

And then was it because you had success and because you got kind of caught up in it that then it was a little bit challenging to go back? And so you were in this more strategic brain and thinking, okay, what do I need to do next? And disconnected a little bit from that emotional grounding?

That is really an astute point that you're tacking into because it's really true.

I love...

I will say, I think this is the fun part of life.

I love to play characters.

I loved...

And, you know, I hope this resonates with someone who's feeling like, I can't do that because it's not me.

So did you recognize you wanted this to go bigger? You needed those people, not just so that you could step back and change roles, but because you saw the vision being, this is something that needs to be all over the country.

Do, do you think there's something to that, Jenny, or do you disagree?

I really do.

If you go super deep on the seed oil thing, that science has not reached consensus yet.

So it, it can be fad-like right now.

And so you don't want to just be known for that.

People who follow that will find you.

They'll see tallow, they'll see avocado oil, and they'll find you.

Yeah.