Went to college,

didn't really know what I was doing, but did end up in the theater department in West Virginia University with an emphasis on lighting and technical theater.

And I got out of college and I didn't do much.

I was not that ambitious.

I ended up kind of waiting tables and doing what kids do when they're 18 or when they're 22.

But we had a neighbor who was a pretty big shot in at nbc news ruben frank and uh he was able to get me an interview uh for this vacation relief program that nbc had there was no freelancers back in 1983 dennis probably knows he he had the same kind of drill at abc it was a staff staff world back then and the only way to get in was through this vacation relief but i mean they did hire people directly but most people came in as this vacation relief program so i went in with my my my college uh light plot from Three Penny Opera and I met with Phil Himes who I didn't know was going to end up being my mentor at the time.

He was grumpy Phil at that point still to me.

and it was so exciting because it was a live show you know that just that live element and you know you've obviously done other live shows and are doing live shows as well but tell us a little bit about that thrill about doing a live show