I guess there's so many different stories and actors you talk about, but tell us some elements of really getting that point.

Yeah.

It took so long.

And that's partly why I wrote the book, because I feel like people don't.

Maybe it's a U.S. evangelical culture thing.

I'm not sure.

It's part of like American positivity.

And then

Is that cultural? Is that our own shame talking? Where do you believe that comes from?

I think it's such a mix of so many different factors, right? Because we all have our individual temperaments and physiology and dispositions and family history and trauma, like culture.

So everything affects everything, right? It's all intertwined.

So I really think it's so many factors.

But I've noticed that for a lot of us who struggle with these things, who grew up in the evangelical church, that there's, you know, that we got messages about how sort of not demanding really, but a little demanding God is of us and these high expectations that God has for our faith, that we're supposed to be doubt free, you know, and that we're supposed to be ever joyful.

And if you're depressed, not for too long, right? That's the thing.

And so there was always this sort of impression that, well, if I'm not getting better by now, God must really be upset with me.

anything like bipolar disorder was