So, um, where would you like to start with the tobacco plant medicine? I think we should just dive right in there.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I- if, um, if, if your audience is already familiar to, to some degree with plant medicine, I, I think that makes it a little bit easier.

Um, a- as you mentioned in the intro, I, I spent a long time living and working in the Peruvian Amazon with, with different, um, uh, wisdom keepers there, uh, groups of people who hold a, a lineage of, of having worked with these plants.

Um, I, I worked for a long time in a, a pretty well-known ayahuasca healing center.

Um, I think a lot of people are familiar now with, with ayahuasca.

What would you say are the different approaches traditionally that allow for more of that lasting change to come forward?

Mm

... maybe even be traumatic or, or, or not have much of an, an effect.

So on a deeper level, this idea of dieta is seen as something that really amplifies the, the, the healing benefits of a plant.

If you were coming to a plant specifically for healing, which is one of the, one of the ways you can come to a dieta is maybe you have a very acute, um, physical ailment.

You have gastritis or heart disease or, you know, a- any, any number of, of ailments and you're, you're looking to heal that.

E- even that is, is maybe a bit more of, um, a Western mind-oriented system of this allopathic system of, of, of simply treating a, a, a symptom.

Um, so i- in these more traditional practices, it's seen that the, the root of that physical ailment, and what we're usually referring to are, are chronic ailments and not acute ailments, but that the root of those chronic ailments all have a psychological component, which could be seen as the, the level of the mind, the emotional level.

Mm

[laughs]

Mm-hmm.

I think part w- was also maybe, a- as you said, uh, uh, maybe part is that American mentality of w- we are in a way...

We have roots, but they're very new.

They're, they're very fresh.

Um, even my ancestry, it's a mix of so many different things.

Growing up, I was very curious.

Yeah

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Yeah, it, it, it's a very good question.

Um, a-again, this is where language becomes a little tricky because y-you know, uh, like, uh, I think we all understand what we're saying when we mean indigenous, but it would kinda be like saying like, "What do Asians think?" You know, there's many, many different worldviews, many different cosmovision, very similar.

Like, you could certainly say Asia as a whole has some similar cosmovisions, but within that, you have very different cosmovisions.

Um, so i-in the Amazon, um, it, it, it's, it, it, it's a very interesting question and, and one I've often pondered because I don't think marijuana is native to the Amazon, and yet, as you said, there are Brazilian tribes, Colombian tribes, um, that, that work with it.

Um, in my very rational mind, which I, I've, I've tried to get away from a bit, um, you know, there was a point where I was very curious about that.

Well, how do you work with the plant if it's not indigenous? Was it introduced? And the, the answer was, it was usually very unclear, and I, I've kind of given up on trying to understand that.

Uh, what are some great lessons and learnings that we can take with us as psychedelics become introduced to the, the sort of Western, modern Western lens?