But every once in a while you get somebody who's really gets into a dark, dark place and has trouble getting out.

Yeah.

I mean, I think what I see a lot of times, Dr.

Rob, is that people just don't really understand how powerful their mind and their thoughts are in terms of what's going on physically in their body.

But if you think about it, the subconscious mind is running the body, right? We don't really have to think about running the body.

It's all automatic, automatic.

And so, and you know, I'm an engineer, not a doctor, engineer turned health coach.

And to your point, it's still a problem.

So how did your engineering background shape the way you understand chronic pain?

I know it seems so unrelated, right? But I think when I first had my pain experience, and it was later diagnosed as rheumatoid arthritis, I started working with a functional medicine practitioner.

And we were doing a lot of those, you know, anti-inflammatory diets.

And I was spending hundreds of dollars in supplements and things like that, which is sort of, you know, the non-conventional approach.

And then I remember I was kind of like stalling in my recovery.

And I remember she said to me one day, like, what are you doing for fun? I'm like, what does that got to do with it? And I realized I was so focused on trying to heal and that it was fun.

actually blocking.

So what do people often misunderstand about the brain's role in pain? I