So some of the things we're seeing out there is questions around how do people go about building a team that will operate effectively when they're not actually in the room as the leader? So, uh, what are your thoughts on that, man, and, and what are you seeing out there?

And I think it's a really good question and it's something that I often ask leaders when I go to their teams to work with them and say, "If you were to take leave or take a holiday for two or three weeks, would you be a-- would your team function?" And it's a really good sort of analysis to see what, how that team is sitting at the moment or has that leader inadvertently usually made themselves the go-to for everything.

And the funny side of that is usually they're the leaders that really need a two or three-week holiday as well because they've taken on so much.

Look, my perspective on it is that you have to...

Like a lot of leaders talk, a lot of leaders talk to me about s- wanting their junior leaders to take more ownership.

So I think we need to rephrase how we look at that because it's a long, it's a big ask for some people just, just to take ownership of things, to look for opportunities and say, "Look, I'm gonna take this off the leader's plate.

I'm gonna show initiative and do this." Like great pe- great team members do do that.

... what's kinda jumping up for you now?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I was loving it.

Yeah.

And even sometimes, yeah, going to a friend and saying- Hey, mate, can you tell me what's going on? Yeah, what's going on? What do you think? Yeah.

And I could even have tough conversations where I say, hey, look, that wasn't what we're after.

Yeah.

Tell us about the motivation for you starting K6 and I guess some of the values of the company because that's a pretty exciting piece for your business right now and what you do, right?

Started out as an officer, then went into soldiering, restarted the SAS, restarted again, and then went through all the ranks and i think 10 deployments thereabouts um over that time so it's a pleasure to have you mate thanks it's great to be here thank you yeah so officer why

how did that come about yeah look So I got recruited out of school.

The recruiters came to my school and were talking about the Defence Force Academy and Duntroon and talking about not if you don't want an office job, this is the job for you and this is the army and all the cool things you see from the footage and all that.

And I was like, yeah, that sounds right up my alley.

And then 9-11 happened, which really pushed me to join in the end because I was at school when that happened and watched it just before my history exam.

And that sort of made me go, okay, I'm going to join.

And the officer path is what had been, was sounded really good.

We give them every

Tell me about what you did in the Army.

Yes.

So I joined the army at 18 and got sucked in by the recruiters at a school and they convinced me to go to the officer academy at Australia.

So I started doing the training process for that.

And halfway through, I sort of realized that what I wanted to get out of the army was more of an actual what the soldiers do and be a team leader as a non-commissioned officer.

So I started trying to move out of the officer training, but they don't really let you do that because officers are a bit more valuable to the army.

So it ended up taking me pretty much the entire training process to get them to allow me to leave.

What is the role of calmness and how do you develop that as a leader or maintain it in the toughest moments when it's hard to stay calm?