um yes the players may have been flagging after a while and realistically we have still got a lot of players that are not available for injury and so on so forth but do you feel that maybe despite the fact that we were chasing the ball for a lot of the game we weren't competitive enough in key areas

I think that point that you've just made there, saying about that we were not near full strength, is what people have to realise.

And this leads me on to the point of people completely shitting the bed on social media about our season, which is ridiculous.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Like, it's a glorified...

When on earth is Gary Fainsworth going to make five substitutions on 60 minutes in a league game? It's just not going to happen.

Like, I think people just need to relax.

And

Could you perhaps talk through another position that you think is a good example of the activist approach and how you think about unlocking value?

Sure.

Mineral Resources has been in the paper for many reasons over the last 18 months and many of those reasons we would have preferred it not to be in the paper for.

However, when we looked at the company, we knew it well.

Rafi had been around the company since his IPO.

We were the largest shareholder on the register, large outside Chris Ellison, the founder.

And we looked at a company that we thought the market was not paying anywhere near full and fair value for its unique strategic assets.

What happened and what was the lesson?

Mm, for sure.

That's what concerns me, that becomes dangerous.

'Cause now, even in each camp, to say, "Hey, I was having this conversation with this person.

They made this point," or whatever, and then even the in-group will punish you.

"But we think this, and we do this, and we do that." And then even the person now, while they're trying to connect to their partner, they have this other entity and group that's telling them, "You're doing something wrong.

You're doing something bad by even listening to them and hearing this." So people, like, now they're so like, "Where do I belong? Where do I find safety? I wanna be with my partner." I mean, I've even heard this from somebody.

They said, like, um, "Me and my partner, outside of politics, man, we were friends, we were close.

Yeah.

When you're, when you're thinking about creating a new product, what is, what is the bar in terms of turning something from an experiment? You know, uh, at what point would you, would you launch something and maybe shut it down or, or, or if you're launching, or by the time you're launching something, are you committed to maintaining it over the long run? I'm curious what kind of the, the framework is.

Sure.

Um, yeah, we, so really, um, we started at the bottom end of the market.

So the bar to us launching something's pretty low.

Like we'll start targeting two person startups, kind of doing YC, for example, is kind of, uh, start from the start, is a phrase you hear a lot internally.

Um, in terms of retiring stuff, we haven't had to retire a product at this stage.

We've always built kind of products where we're going in with a late mover advantage, we consider it.

Yeah.

(laughs)

That's okay.

It will just knock us back a couple of months.

It still doesn't matter.

Like, we've just got to back ourselves that we'll be able to get it back.

Um, yeah, just not feeling desperate is and like...

And that's partly why we've raised is, um, there's this huge psychological effect of, um, having the ability to take lots of long term views on things and including like, you know, sometimes also, like, the marketing channels you pick, for example, um, and all the ones that are like really, that work better in the short run, like paid ads or something, are worse for you in the long run because they're really saturated.

Yeah.