James Goldgeier

Freedom's Unsteady March, America's Role in

Building Arab Democracy, which we'll talk about in a bit, as well as co-authored book with Jim Goldgeier, Foreign Policy Careers for PhDs, and we'll also discuss this a bit too.

Tammy, welcome to Shifting Ground.

It's wonderful to have you with us.

And that's really just been a joy.

So I'll pick up on what, Tammy, you have just touched on, which is the movement between the scholarly world and the policy world or between scholarship and practice.

As this is the subject of your book with Jim Goldgeier, Foreign Policy Careers for PhDs.

And I guess I'd like to ask what you were trying to accomplish with the book and from your vantage point, what academic training contributes to the practice of foreign policy that people coming from other backgrounds might not bring?

I mean, look, I think for me, if I could just make a bigger picture point here, I think considering all of this, um, and again, there's been some great sort of academic work looking into the history of all this.

I would particularly point to a, a recent edited volume edited by Josh Shifrinson and Jim Goldgeier that basically concludes some of the things we said at the start, right? That NATO expansion had good and bad parts to it, but we are where we are now, and I think for me, the big takeaway at this point is that NATO is insufficient to ensure a secure Europe over the long term.

There is going to need to be something else.

We do not have any security architecture for trying to manage tensions between, whether it's European NATO, whether it's the US as well, and its biggest competitor in Russia for trying to include states like Ukraine and, and others in there.