Right? But I think that's then where you think about, okay, what does the organization actually need to look like from like a design perspective, from a culture perspective? What behaviors, what values do we need to instill to, to allow for that?

I was going to start there at where you talked about in terms of the structures, the frameworks, the putting those things on top.

So when Philipp joined, we'd been going for a number of years already.

We'd been doing a lot of stuff along the lines of financial returns, impact on people, and then also around market development.

For the most recent strategy just before Philipp had joined, we'd started doing a little bit more things with intentional operating in systems thinking a little bit.

Without an, an overarching framework for how we affect systems in that way.

Some of the first sets of conversations that Philipp and I started having was, okay, which of these are investing in those deeper transformations, those systems? What does that look like? How might we, through the things that we can do, that we are doing on the ground, codify them a little bit so that we can bring them to a level where you can then start having those conversations with the wider group, with the wider team? It's back to your question of how do you bring other people along.

We haven't aligned it, and then we need to backtrack and spend way more time and energy to do that.

And you were there right from the beginning with Taxi, right?

I was there.

It was, um, uh, a- after, uh, yeah, no, I kinda left MTM after about three or four years and started to, uh, go other places.

I went on Laverne & Shirley, uh, where I had a ball, although that was, that was a tough show.

And then I did a show with Ned, Ned Beatty.

And oh, I was all a hired hand.

I didn't do many pilots or anything like that.

Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

So like, you know,

Yeah.

And if I can't fill that time or I can't make the joke work, I'll say, you know, I need something else.

I need some more words here.

Right.

I need a different joke here or something like that.

And, you know, my I counsel writers ever since.

I

So like, you know,

Yeah, and if I can't fill that time or I can't make the joke work, I'll say, you know, I need something else.

I need some more words here.

Right.

I need a different joke here or something like that.

And, you know, I counsel writers ever since... guess ever since cheers before cheers i was just i had no cojones even on taxi that was a really difficult show for me because there was you know four of the greatest comedy writers in the world and this interplanetary cast of actors so and i was green i was green then you know i didn't even on taxi yeah i was green i had done a couple of mary tallemores and laverne and shirley's and I, you know, I had known Jim, Jim and Alan.

Well, Alan was on.

Yeah, but

What's the best position?

There are no secrets.

You just have to know it's an innate thing in me.

I mean, some jokes are said standing.

Some jokes are better said sitting.

Some jokes are better said over the shoulder.

Some jokes are better said walking out a door without ever turning around.

What is the one show that you to this day can't believe didn't happen? you would have bet the house on it.

Right, right.

So you, in order to get the best work, is to make everybody feel like they're part of the creative process.

So when I, when I was doing my show, my first show with Mary, you know, I, you know, I was scared out of my mind, 'cause it was not a very good script.

Mary was complaining about it, but I did everything I could to try to improve the script to make it better.

I didn't rewrite as much as funny moves, uh, uh, pieces of business that might help it.

You know, I, I, I played by the rules of that show.

I did what the writers said and, um, at the end of, just before we shot the show, I was walking to the stage and Mary stopped me and said, "We feel our investment into you has worked out." And, you know, I got Newhearts and I got Bob Cranes and I got Paul Sancho, and then I got Phyllis the next year and I got Rhodas.

I like that word.