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Well, I can speak more clearly to how some of my negotiation or how I've helped clients advocate for their worth differently.

And what I found is that the timeline to value is significantly truncated versus where it was three years ago.

So when I'm working with even, let's say a CRO, for example, from a couple of years ago, like sometimes that interview process would be four months.

And you know this from the recruiting side, Rich, like you can see how things can be dragged out.

There's multiple interviews, there's stakeholders involved.

Like sometimes there's bidding war scenarios that...

who

like two, three people on my team.

And I can replace the teams of eight, my marketing team of eight that I had before.

I can replace them entirely with AI and I can do all that work in one day.

with no marketing briefs, with no brand guidelines, I don't need any of that shit that slows me down.

I can just do it in a day.

If I need a website coded, I can get a landing page up in a day.

Impassable.

It can't replicate every conversation you've ever had, because you talking is a combination of all of those things.

So talk to me about saying no.

So my biggest qualm with Getting to Yes is more about how academic it is.

And this is not dismissive of Yuri and the team that wrote that book in any sense.

It is academically sound.

It is correct by definition.

Getting to yes and thinking mutually and all that is important.

Now, I do think that I have a controversial take on win-win.

predetermined notion on her family.

Uh-huh.

And what I found is that the timelines to, the timeline to value is significantly truncated versus where it was three years ago.

So when I'm working with even, let's say, a CRO, for example, from a couple years ago, like sometimes that interview process would be four months, and, and you know this from the recruiting side, Rich.

Like you, you can see how things can be dragged out.

There's multiple interviews.

There's stakeholders involved.

Like sometimes there's bidding war scenarios that the scenarios are relatively dragged out, and I'm working on narrative and development and structuring the value chain every step of the way, and I know that process might be, you know, closer to, uh, four months.

And so whether, whether what you're finding is people are uncomfortable with where they are, so there's reasons to change, or whether the opportunity in front of them is so exciting that they could, they could get there, particularly maybe becoming a bit more entrepreneurial, having the ability to impact the business more, take more ownership, have more upside, have some of these incredible outcomes that maybe people historically would have associated not with a W2 but with being a company owner, and I just wonder what your, what your thoughts are on that.

So along these lines, I wanna touch on it feels like maybe the core, uh, approach you take, kind of the core to your philosophy, which is to kind of break out of this idea of some benchmark for a specific role and instead make it very clear to the company, "Here's the pain I will solve for you that is really important to you, and here's why it's worth paying me this much more, because it's such a big problem for you." Talk about just that mindset.

So this really comes down to having curiosity and showing curiosity about the actual problem.

Because usually w- if I'm speaking to a room of four hundred people, right, which I, I'll occasionally do with some communities, I'll ask them, "Who is actually doing the job that's on their job description?" Nobody will raise their hand.

It's not like you have your job description right there, and that's what you do, right? There's always so much more that's not documented, right? Now, when you're going into a position and you see a JD, you're like, "Yeah, I could do all those things," but there's so much more, right? This is another reason that anchoring to a number too early is tough, because you anchor to, "Oh, this is, this is fair for a senior PM role," right? "This is fair." Then you go through the process of the interviewing.

It's very clear that it's a director role.

You're gonna lead five people.

They scoop another team under you.

[chuckles]