It's a Sin

...

It's a Sin and Tiptoe, and it ha-

Yeah

... it's, it's, like, really grounded in, well, this is what's going on, and just holding a-

Yeah

... that first era.

Years and Years, It's a Sin, Queer as Folk, uh-

Tiptoe

I mean, it has to be astronomical.

And so the fact that this happened, it's absolutely wild and just shows you how a lot of these celebrities just have no thoughts in their head or think they're untouchable or just don't have any sort of care or compassion for someone that had passed away very very young and was also in the public eye very young After he wrapped How I Met Your Mother, he did do a few interesting projects like Gone Girl, a series of unfortunate events, It's a Sin, American Horror Story, and in the 2020s he was doing movies like The Matrix, Resurrections, and even kind of returned to the How I Met Your Mother universe with How I Met Your Father, which was actually starring Hilary Duff, and ended up being cancelled after two seasons and there was no resolution with that show.

He also did an episode of Doctor Who, And recently he did an episode of one of my favorite shows, which I guess is a franchise now, Dexter, as he appeared in Dexter Resurrection, one of the very few spinoff sequels continuation series that is very good.

The only other one I can really think of is Gen V from The Boys, which is another one of my all time favorite shows, even though the last season was kind of crap.

Oh, I know about this, yeah

... and It's a Sin.

This is Alan Cumming, David Morrissey, two-

As, as neighbors, right?

[laughs]

Um, Russell Davies, I mean, he's been on the pod.

W- we had a great talk with him about, um, about It's a Sin.

Yeah.

He was one of the poor guys that was in London and died from AIDS and that whole theater scene in Britain.

And another connection to that is that Russell T. Davies did do a show called It's a Sin, which is a wonderful series about the AIDS crisis that is just heartbreaking.

The main character that played by Alexander is inspired partly by Dernsley.

Going to so much as he's an actor that was a West End actor that went on to one episode of Doctor Who.

But actually, the more experience you get, the more you know your body, actually, it can get better and better as you journey through your life.

And one of the things that you're saying, you know, one of the depictions of such beautiful, older, queer male loving is actually depicted in one of the episodes from The Last of Us, directed by the amazing Peter Hoare, who directed It's a Sin.

And that's a gorgeous story where there's an older guy who's living by himself and he keeps his space, you know, all buried up and this other guy comes and finds him and then he recognises him as a fellow queer person and he's never had a queer relationship and he opens out and the arc of these characters' storytelling is in one episode and that's the most beautiful, incredible, uplifting depiction of older people finding each other and giving each other life and love at an older point in their lives.

Before we let you go, Eta, and I think it's probably clear by now that neither Jess or I actually want you to go, but we realise you have a life, so we can't take up too much of your time.

Yeah.

Russell G. Davis's, you know, It's a Sin.

So it was fascinating to come to it because it doesn't come to it particularly from a gay angle or a queer angle.

It comes in almost purely as a medical story.

I mean, I think that's what...

I mean, it's what this film gets.

Well, it's a sin got well.

It's all the small stories.

Eita O'Brien is an intimacy coordinator, author of the Intimacy Onset Guidelines and founder of Intimacy Onset Company.

Not only has she worked on some huge hit TV shows, It's a Sin, Gentleman Jack, Normal People, there are many more.

also written a book intimacy a field guide to finding connection and feeling your deep desires this book uses eater's vast experience of guiding actors through authentic intimacy scenes to help people understand how they use those techniques to build a deeper and healthier connection to their bodies and rethink how we navigate sex and intimacy in our own lives Hello, Eta.

Hello.

it's so good to have you back.

It's lovely to be back.

But we've had such a fantastic reaction to our It's a Sin double episodes that we've done.

We're just so, so pleased to have you back again to be talking all about your book.

[laughs]

... all the way through It's a Sin, so I'm like, "Wow."

Yeah.

We also kinda wanted to briefly talk about all because we had a bit of an Instagram scroll, not gonna lie.

And oh, it's just, there's just so much to unpack with all of this, isn't there? And the fact that those stigmas are still prevalent today is really heartbreaking.

And I think if anybody listening to this wants, if y- perhaps if you weren't around in the '80s, um, if you haven't already seen it, the Russell T Davies drama It's a Sin, which was aired on Channel 4 two or three years ago, is incredible at portraying what it was like in the '80s to be gay and to live with that fear of contracting HIV and then potentially contracting it and the consequences of that, and also that homophobia that went hand in hand with it.

So yeah, definitely recommend that if you want, uh, more of an understanding of, of what it would have been like then.

This week then, we bring you the dark and terrifying story of Adam Hall, a man who had every opportunity to live responsibly with HIV, but instead chose secrecy, coercion, and unimaginable cruelty Now, usually this is a point in the story where we would take you back to some kind of messy origin story.

It, it really is.

It's, it's just heartbreaking for this child to, to have that news given to him in, in such a...

It's like there's no, I don't know, not that you want, like, drama or anything, but it's just in part of your normal, ordinary life, and then suddenly you haven't got this normal, ordinary life anymore.

Really, really sad.