And I feel for you so much when that's hard, but I guess Dr. Ish, what is, what would you say advice wise for someone who, who just the thought of feeling any sort of pain like takes them out of like therapy or even being open.

Yeah, I think let's reframe it.

I don't think it's a matter of Mike wanting to be hard.

I think it's a matter of Mike wanting to feel safe.

psychologically safe to be me and to be okay.

And I think that's what it is for everybody.

And if we can create that space where you feel safe to go there and know that you don't have to carry it with you, I think that's the biggest thing.

Anyway, will you mind commenting on that?

Yeah.

You know, long enough so he can see some, see something there.

Um, and it was a challenge for me because it wasn't just him, there was a lot of guys in the room who were just like that.

And so now, now I've gotta adjust the approach a little bit to figure out, how do I keep Michael in this room long enough for him to figure out if I stay, there might be a way for me to feel better walking out of here.

That was a challenge, man.

Uh, it was.

Of course, coming in.

Yeah.

do.

We all do.

And especially coming from being impacted by justice, one of the hard things to believe is, is it second chance possible? Do I believe in it? Is that for me? But if you're going to believe in second chances, you first got to give yourself one.

Here's something a lot of folks don't realize.

If you're talking about relationships and marriage, 64% of the folks who are happily with somebody now found that person after their first marriage.

i

need help you come on cup of tea right i tell you off your teeth i tell you what man i'm just i kept saying it over and over again i'm just so proud of these guys man the work thank you the courage it took to come through and show up as somebody different a different version of yourself to share things that some of the things that were just unspeakable to say hey i i'm bigger than the worst decision i've ever made right and i can put some of these hard things in the rear view and look forward to something else right we all deserve that and so i just the magic in this show is you guys

Yeah.

You know, long enough so he can see some, see something there.

Um, and it was a challenge for me because it wasn't just him, there was a lot of guys in the room who were just like that.

And so now, now I've gotta adjust the approach a little bit to figure out, how do I keep Michael in this room long enough for him to figure out if I stay, there might be a way for me to feel better walking out of here.

That was a challenge, man.

Uh, it was the first couple days.

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Right.

And Michael, so you said something while you were there that really stuck out, man, uh, which is you said, "Listen, there's a lot of me, there's a big part of who I am today that works for her.

If I let you change that, then maybe I don't work for her anymore."

Yeah.

You know, long enough so he can see some, see something there.

Um, and it was a challenge for me because it wasn't just him, there was a lot of guys in the room who were just like that.

And so now, now I've gotta adjust the approach a little bit to figure out, how do I keep Michael in this room long enough for him to figure out, if I stay, there might be a way for me to feel better walking out of here.

That was a challenge, man.

Yeah.

You know, long enough so he can see some, see something there.

Um, and it was a challenge for me because it wasn't just him.

There was a lot of guys in the room who were just like that.

And so now, now I've gotta adjust the approach a little bit to figure out, how do I keep Michael in this room long enough for him to figure out, if I stay, there might be a way for me to feel better walking out of here.

That was a challenge, man.

Uh, it was, the first couple days.

Yeah.

We all do.

We all do.

And especially coming from being impacted by justice, one of the hard things to believe is, is it second chance possible? Do I believe in it? Is that for me? But if you're going to believe in second chances, you first got to give yourself one.

Here's something a lot of folks don't realize.

If you're talking about relationships and marriage, 64% of the folks who are happily with somebody now found that person after their first marriage.

of

here.

That's a good SEO.

It'd be better

if we didn't call it therapy.

We just called it humaning.

This is a class on humaning.

You're going to have these things that are your navigation system called emotions.

And if you can understand the true meaning behind it, then you can navigate earth a lot better.

You know what I mean? Yeah.

you know?

Yeah

You know, long enough so he can see some, see something there.

Um, and it was a challenge for me because it wasn't just him, there was a lot of guys in the room who were just like that.

And so now, now I've gotta adjust the approach a little bit to figure out, how do I keep Michael in this room long enough for him to figure out, if I stay, there might be a way for me to feel better walking out of here.

That was a challenge, man.

Uh, it was the first time I did this

Yeah.

And especially coming from being impacted by justice, one of the hard things to believe is, is a second chance possible? Right? Do I, do I believe in it? But, and is that, is that for me? But if you're gonna believe in second chances, you first gotta give yourself one.

We all

do.

And especially coming from being impacted by justice, one of the hard things to believe is, is it second chance possible? Do I believe in it? Is that for me? But if you're going to believe in second chances, you first got to give yourself one.

Here's something a lot of folks don't realize.

If you're talking about relationships and marriage 64% of the folks who are happily with somebody now found that person after their first marriage.

Does it really?

Get out of here.

That's a good SEO.

It'd be

better if we didn't call it therapy, we just called it humaning.

This is a class on humaning.

yeah you're gonna have these things that are your navigation system called emotions and if you can understand the true meaning behind it then you can navigate earth a lot better you know what i mean yeah but you talk it's like guys especially as guys we were not raised to dive into that you got a four-year-old son who falls and skins his knee what do you do get up

help.

You come up.

Cup of tea.

With your teeth.

Mm-hmm.

Re-entry and all of those things we've gotta, all those conversations we've gotta have.

And what struck me the most was when we got there, and after you guys started sharing and doing all your things, right, they were telling each other things there in rehab they'd never told each other before in life.

Yeah.

Most of, most of us will not ask because- We're gonna infer that if they say no, then I have something to do with that.

And it doesn't have to have anything to do with you, but just check in.

Are you happy? How's, how's, how's it going? Life has been interesting.

How's it going for you? And then give them the space to say all of it.

Mm-hmm.

Reentry and all of those things we've gotta, all those conversations we've gotta have.

And what struck me the most was when we got there- And after you guys started sharing and doing all your things, right, they were telling each other things there in rehab they'd never told each other before in life.

No.

We've been talking about this, and the, you know, the producers in the field who just have been with you guys from day one, they're, "Listen, th- you don't understand.

These aren't, these aren't cast members.

These are like family.

And if we're gonna do something this real, we gotta make sure, number one, that you're the guy, and we gotta make sure, number two, that they're gonna be okay and they're gonna come out better than this."

Mm-hmm.

Re-entry and all of those things we've gotta, all those conversations we've gotta have And what struck me the most was when we got there, and after you guys started sharing and doing all your things, right, they were telling each other things there in rehab they never told each other before in life.

Yeah.

Most of, most of us will not ask because we're gonna infer that if they say no, then I have something to do with that.

And it doesn't have to have anything to do with you, but just check in.

Are you happy? How's, how's, how's it going? Life has been interesting.

How's it going for you? And then give them the space to say all of it.

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No.

Mm-hmm.

Re-entry and all of those things we've gotta, all those conversations we've gotta have.

And what struck me the most was when we got there, and after you guys started sharing and doing all your things, right, they were telling each other things there in rehab they never told each other before in life.

No.

We've been talking about this, and the, you know, the producers in the field who just have been with you guys from day one, they're, "Listen, th- you don't understand.

These aren't, these aren't cast members.

These are like family.

And if we're gonna do something this real, we gotta make sure, number one, that you're the guy, and we gotta make sure, number two- ... that they're gonna be okay and they're gonna come out better than this.

Mm-hmm.

Reentry and all of those things we've gotta, all those conversations we've gotta have.

And what struck me the most was when we got there, and after you guys started sharing and doing all your things, right, they were telling each other things there in rehab they never told each other before in life.

Yeah.

Most of, most of us will not ask because we're gonna infer that if they say no, then I have something to do with that.

And it doesn't have to have anything to do with you, but just check in.

Are you happy? How's, how's, how's it going? Life has been interesting.

How's it going for you? And then give them the space to say all of it.