Internal rate of return

Well, I'm just curious because on the stuff we're working on, on the office side, we're coming in looking at, okay, well, we want to provide...

If we have an investor that's more IRR driven, we need to provide a certain IRR in a certain timeframe.

We have to have an exit scenario for that five to seven years maybe.

20% IRR, whatever.

But if we have another investor that's patient capital and they're happy to jump into the cash flows, they're more looking like, okay, well, if I can get 11.5% cash on cash year on year.

Yeah, without thinking about it.

Fantastic.

But I think it's interesting what you said about making sure they get their money out because while it's good to talk about the upside, the ROI, the IRR, whatever, downside protection, And you're de-risking it by saying, okay, look, it's cash flow.

And if the rates come down, you'll get a further upside.

And the crazy part, a lot of these deals pencil from mid to high teens can very conservatively IRR and they start cashflow in let's call it, you know, every channel cashflow 8% plus.

No, that's great.

So what I'm hearing you say is industrial spaces and open air shopping centers are kind of the markets you're really excited about moving forward.

And if the deal makes sense to sell in three years, be my guest.

Most people will not complain about it.

Like literally on this deal, we're negotiating certain minimum IRR target.

If they hit the target, they can hit the decision button earlier or later.

But then to your point, I think about the time element or what I want to say the deal partners are most concerned with, but that's time lost against your ability, like your hold period.

So that's taken an impact to IRR.

You're essentially pushing out your ability to run whatever the value creation plan you had in mind was.

So I think that's probably the most powerful reason that we have to take a deep and close look at when it's time to transition or if and when it's time to transition someone.

Yeah, like

you don't even need... to do a calculation.

If you just think logically, you realize this is millions of dollars when you add up the effect on IRR, the actual hard costs of it, and then the what's the spillover effect of it.

Like it's millions of dollars easily, which is why we have to use science to get it right, you know.

What does today's price environment allow you to contemplate in terms of the size of the prize that you have in your hands?

Well, certainly what we've come out with when we were priced at our initial PEA in 2025 described just over 500 million post-tax NPV and just over 20% IRR.

We increased that to long-term consensus prices today, somewhere around $3,600, $3,700 per ounce.

The existing project in the ground we have today described by that PEA is a $1.2 billion project and over 50% IRR.

So the torque that's delivered through the metal price is significant.

However, I will point out back to what I had said about enablers for constructability and operability.

And And we basically provide a venture capital style underwriting, but more on social returns.

So instead of IRR, it might be cost per disability adjusted life year or DALI averted.

And we, our goal is to help get money out the door at scale to solve the biggest problems in terms of like averting, early deaths or poor quality of life globally.

And so oftentimes that translates to public health in the global South, sub-Saharan Africa, India, Southeast Asia, but really it's whatever can hit the metrics.

Versus if there's a problem you really want to solve with that couple of million dollars, maybe there's different levels of effectiveness that you can do to solve it.

And so I think what we were doing in Tulsa, and I think this is like a real lesson for me, it was like we were really blurring the lines of economic return and social return and not measurable enough on the social return in that kind of concessionary economic return on the local investing that we were doing.

And I think here we're being super intellectually pure, saying, okay, we're either going to give the money away or we're going to give a reduced IRR or reduced a credit facility with a lower interest rate.

But these are the social returns we're going to give you.

You get measured on dollars you return and dollars on dollars, dollars invested, dollars returned.

You do also get measured on an IRR calculation, but the magnitude of dollars on dollars is probably net-net, at least within some constraints of IRR, more important to how LPs evaluate you.

And so, yes, you can produce 100x on a million-dollar investment, but that if your fund size is not very small, it just doesn't matter.

It's 100x.

The IRR on that investment is awesome.

But you need to move the needle by billions if your fund size is reasonable.

And then if you have LPs who are large, they need billions of returns.

They're doing earn-out deals.

So you only get paid after a certain IRR is achieved.

after a certain cue and preferred his routine.

The whole business changed overnight.

Base case economics at 32.50 gold.

gives us a after-tax NPV5 of $2.4 billion for a two-year payback at around about a 60% internal rate of return.

And that, as per the pre-feasibility, strong leverage to upside gold price.

So that 2.4 rises to 4.3 at 4,500 gold.