Inter-Services Intelligence
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Search complete. 47 mentions across 27 episodes found for "Inter-Services Intelligence".
Sep 11, 2026
Richard MiniterGUEST
The mujahideen did not become the Taliban.
Richard MiniterGUEST
The Taliban is, um, created mainly by the Pakistani intelligence services, the ISI, uh, and a bunch of, um, local Islamic teachers.
Richard MiniterGUEST
They're trying to get, uh, the Taliban are trying to impose the severe version of the official version of Islam according to Pakistan.
Richard MiniterGUEST
Um, and later, the so-called mujahideen, the Arab foreign fighters, ally themselves with the Taliban because the Taliban are not strong enough on their own.
Richard MiniterGUEST
Remember, there's a whole group, a whole galaxy of these groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and people move between groups.
Richard MiniterGUEST
Uh, we have captured documents that show that people get frustrated that their martyrdom opportunity is delayed.
Richard MiniterGUEST
That's like Lashkar-e-Taiba, for example, which is one of these groups, and they'll move to ISIS.
Richard MiniterGUEST
Their, uh, martyrdom opportunity is further delayed there, so they shift to Al-Qaeda.
Joe GettyHOST
One of my favorite stories has always been from, uh, right after 9/11.
Joe GettyHOST
The day of 9/11, General Mahmood Ahmed, who is the head of Pakistan's ISI intelligence service, which was all kinds of infiltrated by radical Muslims, the ISI of Pakistan, if you know anything about Pakistan.
Joe GettyHOST
I mean, they have a, an interesting government over there.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
Mm-hmm.
Joe GettyHOST
We have such a weird relationship with them.
Joe GettyHOST
They had been allowing Al-Qaeda to go back and forth across the border and, and, uh, well, they ultimately, they hid Osama Bin Laden from us for years.
Joe GettyHOST
Um, but so the, uh, ISI guy happened to be in Washington, DC on 9/11, and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, if you don't remember him, big, giant barrel-chested, looks like an offensive lineman guy, allegedly went to Mahmood that day with a list of seven demands on how you're going to work with us.
Joe GettyHOST
The history starts today.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
One of my favorite stories has always been from right after 9-11.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
The day of 9-11, General Mahmoud Ahmed, who is the head of Pakistan's ISI intelligence service, which is all kinds of... infiltrated by radical muslims the isi of pakistan if you know anything about pakistan i mean they have an interesting government over there where you got to keep the the muslim extremists happy or you're going to get blown up yourself they're a nuclear power all kinds of stuff we have such a weird relationship with them they had been allowing al-qaeda to go back and forth across the border and and uh well they ultimately they hid osama bin laden from us for years um But so the ISI guy happened to be in Washington, D.C. on 9-11, and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, if you don't remember him, big, giant, barrel-chested, looks like an offensive lineman guy, allegedly went to Mahmoud that day with a list of seven demands on how you're going to work with us.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
History starts today.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
There is no black or white.
Gary BerntsenGUEST
then...
Gary BerntsenGUEST
It was going to ISI back then.
Gary BerntsenGUEST
The Pakistani Inter-Services
Lara LoganHOST
Intelligence, which is their intelligence service.
7 MINS LATER
Gary BerntsenGUEST
You know, they build the Raptor, which is like an F-16, you know, can carry as much armament as an F-16 and this whole variety of drones that have different capabilities and payloads.
Lara LoganHOST
Yeah, it's it's pretty scary, actually.
Lara LoganHOST
I mean, I've been hunted by a drone on the Iraqi battlefield in the battle for Mosul against ISIS.
Lara LoganHOST
But, you know, that was one drone.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
One of my favorite stories has always been from right after 9-11.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
The day of 9-11, General Mahmoud Ahmed, who is the head of Pakistan's ISI intelligence service, which is all kinds of... infiltrated by radical muslims the isi of pakistan if you know anything about pakistan i mean they have an interesting government over there where you got to keep the the muslim extremists happy or you're going to get blown up yourself they're a nuclear power all kinds of stuff we have such a weird relationship with them they had been allowing al-qaeda to go back and forth across the border and and uh well they ultimately they hid osama bin laden from us for years um But so the ISI guy happened to be in Washington, D.C. on 9-11, and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, if you don't remember him, big, giant, barrel-chested, looks like an offensive lineman guy, allegedly went to Mahmoud that day with a list of seven demands on how you're going to work with us.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
History starts today.
Jack ArmstrongHOST
There is no black or white.
ChrisHOST
Mujahideen.
AdamHOST
Mujahideen, um, through Pakistani intelligence, so the ISI.
AdamHOST
And the numbers that I got were just for approval between 20 and 30 million is what was pledged by the United States and given in 1980.
AdamHOST
By the late 1980s, it was $600 million a year.
15 MINS LATER
ChrisHOST
Now everyone's like, "There's a power vacuum.
ChrisHOST
Who's gonna fill it?"
AdamHOST
And shockingly enough, Pakistani, the ISI, gets in there again, and they're finding- If we support some of these hardliners, maybe this lines up a little bit.
AdamHOST
Maybe these guys are gonna be better neighbors than some of these other, uh, I guess progressive Islamic-
David McCloskeyGUEST
And of course, anyone with a bit of a conspiratorial bent will say, of course, the former CIA guy is making this case, right? But there is absolutely no evidence that bin Laden ever received buddy or weapons from the CIA.
David McCloskeyGUEST
I mean, an important detail in this period is that The way that the agency supported the Mujahideen was through Pakistan, right? The money and material went through Pakistan's ISI, their intelligence agency.
David McCloskeyGUEST
And there's been a lot of digging into this.
David McCloskeyGUEST
There is no evidence that the agency ever armed or supported him.
Sarah Stewart HollandHOST
Because afterwards, the Mujahideen tried to take control, but they couldn't unite the country.
Sarah Stewart HollandHOST
And that's where you start to see the formation of the Taliban, with the backing of the CIA and its Pakistani counterpart, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate.
Sarah Stewart HollandHOST
So you have Young Pashtun, and that is the people group in southern Afghanistan and northern Pakistan, which they're like tribesmen.
Sarah Stewart HollandHOST
They've been educated in madrasas.
Sina RahmaniHOST
So I know, uh, one fa- one facet of Pakistani ex- the foreign policy that I know, that I've, I've, I've read about and seen, is its outsized role in spreading political Sunni Islam, reactionary political Sunni Islam, right? So what the, you know, the, it's Pakistanis, the role of Pakistanis, n- uh, forget Pakistan the country, but Pakistanis in, say, Syria, the role of Pakistanis in regressive movements in Afghanistan, and that was at the high-level stuff, too.
Sina RahmaniHOST
That was ISI, right? Mostly.
Sina RahmaniHOST
That was, like, a proud project of ISI, was the mujahideen of the '80s, and we're still seeing the consequences of all that.
Sina RahmaniHOST
Even though now, which is still baffling, 'cause isn't the Taliban a child of the Pakistani military state in a sense? Not a child, but child is the wrong way.
Sina RahmaniHOST
Child is too paternalistic.
Jessica SternGUEST
Fazlur Rehman Khalil is his name.
Jessica SternGUEST
Uh, and I, I finally, you know, why did I get to interview him? I would say because Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI, wanted me to interview him, but they, they must have taken a while to decide that.
Jessica SternGUEST
And I went to see him in his offices, and I kept thinking, oh, this is jihadi theater.
Jessica SternGUEST
There were the, the fighters with the, the vests Where they carry the bullets, and they served me tea in a dirty cup with this horrible buffalo milk.
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