Ilan Pappé

And if they can break off enough and there's enough collaboration from the IDF that's in the West Bank, that's what the, the, that could, could be a possibility.

It reminds me of we had, we had, uh, Ilan Pappé on after October 7th, and he said that this is going to lead to Israeli society potentially ripping itself apart.

And, I mean, [laughs] this is the type of reporting that you would expect to see if that was happening.

Right.

I mean, Zionism as I say has rewritten not least its own history, but that too is coming under the microscope like it's never before.

And that, that's not just simply Molly Crabapple and Ben Moses books, but people like Ilan Pappé, the foremost Israeli historian, uh, and his book at the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

The work of people like Moshe Machover, for instance.

Uh, and many other Israeli anti-Zionists who of course have left the country but, uh, have written.

So that was great.

And then people started talking about 1948, and what happened, and all these books by people starting to read Ilan Pappé, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine came out, and all these stories.

And I'm like, "That can't be true." I mean, I know my father was there.

My mother told me stories.

So both of these are Israeli side.

The big name on the Israeli side is Ilan Pappé.

This guy has exposed secrets that nobody else before him, and he has done so with a level of accuracy and academic, you know, um, uh, integrity that is second to none.

Because he's Israeli, he has access to historical archives that the Arabs and Muslims don't have.

You know, but, um, you know, for...

And, and there's so many interviews.

You should watch YouTube interviews of Ilan Pappé.

He speaks the truth.

And it's basically seeking to make the argument that a primary threat to Israel is domestic rather than external, but is being produced because of the policies that Israel has adopted and is implementing, um, towards, uh, not only the Palestinians, uh, but throughout the region.

I mean, Ilan Pappé has spoken about a civil war between, uh, Israelis, uh, in, in the West Bank and, and, uh, the secular Israelis.

And, and an example of that, there was a article in The Jerusalem Post, not been cover-covered by anyone else, of a, um, a terror attack, potential terror attack, which was, uh, foiled by the Israeli, um, security officials.

So, I mean, I, the way I look at terror is that terror is a tactic employed once other avenues of social and political change is completely exhausted.

Like, um, I think, I was listening to, um, uh, I can't remember his name, a, an Israeli writer on, on Second Captains a few weeks ago and-

Ilan Pappé.

Yeah, Ilan Pappé, that's it.

And-

Yeah, he's a brilliant author.

Mm.

None of the existing MPs voted in favor of the motion, but the Holocaust survivor Steven Kapos and, uh, the famed Israeli historian Ilan Pappé were amongst those who endorsed it, uh, as the-

Pappé was there.

Pappé was there

It doesn't actually really matter where they came from.

The thing is that it is an ideology which defines an identity which is confusing because the identity, is it religious? Is it racial? Is it ethnic? What is the identity? And it ends up being, the history of, of Zionism, if you read Ilan Pappé and his thick book, um, about Zionism on both sides of the Atlantic, you'd understand that Zionism is an ideology invented in the eighteen hundreds aiming at trying to pull the Jews out of Europe and into Palestine, and basically it was racist against Jews and basically any other fringe group that was...

And that's how it was founded, and that was the original ideology.

Get the Jews out of Europe, make a state in Palestine, and then from there, kick all the Palestinians out.