Howard Schubiner

I love it.

And the work of researchers including Dr. Howard Schubiner, he, he, like, steps in and helps out with the PRT stuff, and, and looking at the role that fear and threat interpretation can play in certain forms of chronic pain.

Yeah.

So this is really ins- interesting.

And this most recent one has really, really got to me.

Recently, I've been listening to a book by Dr. Howard Schubiner called Unlearn Your Pain.

And there was one chapter in particular called A Pain in the Back.

That chapter stopped me.

What does pain actually mean? Does pain equal damage? Can you hurt without damaging tissue? Can tissue damage exist without pain? Why can an old injury keep hurting after the tissue has healed? Why do MRI sometimes find scary looking abnormalities in people who feel completely fine? What happens when your brain starts predicting danger? And can fear itself alter pain? I've been diving into the work of Dr.

Howard Schubiner and the modern pain science surrounding chronic pain.

And some of this completely changes the way that you think about what pain is.

But we have to be very careful because I'm not going to tell you that pain is all in your head.

And it becomes pretty clear, like big aha moments there.

Dr. Howard Schubiner says that having this understanding and believing that your pain can be fixed is crucial to successful treatment.

If you think you have a chronic condition that's never going to get better and you're just pushing through it or you're just trying to distract yourself, the chance of that working extremely well is going to be low because in the back of your mind, you're like, oh yeah, this is damaged.

It's broken.

Not everybody's going to jump on board when new things come about, when revolution occurs.

Schubiner's book, Unlearn Your Pain, is available now.

You can find more information about Dr. Howard Schubiner, Carolyn Evans, and all of our guests on our website, ingoodhealthpodcast.org. For more behind the scenes, follow In Good Health Pod on Facebook, Instagram, and X.

Our writer-producer is Kristen Farah.

And it becomes pretty clear, like big aha moments there.

Dr. Howard Schubiner says that having this understanding and believing that your pain can be fixed is crucial to successful treatment.

If you think you have a chronic condition that's never going to get better and you're just pushing through it or you're just trying to distract yourself, the chance of that working extremely well is going to be low because in the back of your mind, you're like, oh yeah, this is damaged.

It's broken.

Not everybody's going to jump on board when new things come about, when revolution occurs.

Schubiner's book, Unlearn Your Pain, is available now.

You can find more information about Dr. Howard Schubiner, Carolyn Evans, and all of our guests on our website, ingoodhealthpodcast.org. For more behind the scenes, follow In Good Health Pod on Facebook, Instagram, and X.

Our writer-producer is Kristen Farah.

episode, the second episode of this podcast is called What is TMS? And that goes through like how how do you make the how do people make

a diagnosis and how was i trained to make a diagnosis and there is a three-step process to do so so i would recommend people take a look at that um but even so people will go to like the top doctors like howard schubiner is the one who created that three-step process and he was on this podcast just recently and people will go to him and he will tell them like yup this is a neuroplastic condition uh you are safe you know you are cleared to do whatever you're cleared for exercise you're you're cleared to do this healing work psychologically because the problem is not a physical problem you are good and even then people will be like i don't know I don't know.

So I just want to sort of underline what you're saying, which is like, the waters are muddy and it's hard to know what is what is um like what is what i guess but what i would just offer to people listening is that so much more of your pain is neuroplastic than you think it is so so so so much more

yeah yeah um so yeah the question i the question i had for you was so I alluded to the point earlier that it ends up being like the last box that's checked.

But what actually causes pain? What if pain isn't always a direct reflection of physical damage? What if, in some cases, pain is something our brains have learned and can consequently learn to unlearn? That's the fascinating idea we're exploring with today's guest, Dr.

Howard Schubiner, a doctor and clinical professor at Michigan State University's College of Human Medicine, who has spent decades studying the connection between the brain, the body, and our experiences of pain, anxiety, and depression.

Dr. Howard believes that while all pain is 100% completely real, it is created by the brain.

His work focuses on this.

So whether you live with chronic pain, know somebody who does, or you're simply fascinated by the relationship between the brain and the body, I think this conversation will give you plenty to consider.

And with that in mind, ready to find a healthier, happier you? Let's get started.

Welcome Dr. Howard Schubiner to the Happier Life Project podcast.

Thrilled to have you on the show and thank you so much for allowing me to read your book.

And perhaps more importantly, the brain can learn its way out of some forms of persistent pain.

I'm joined by Dr. Howard Schubiner, physician, researcher, and author of Unlearn Your Pain, whose work has hugely influenced our understanding

of mind-body conditions and chronic pain.

I'm also delighted that Gigi Cockerl is joining us today.