How to Change Your Mind

What led you to this pivot, exploring the thoughts that run through our head?

Well, it actually grew out of, uh, a book I wrote a couple years ago called How to Change Your Mind, uh, where I was exploring the science of psychedelics and the discovery that they were useful to treat mental illness of various kinds.

And, uh, in, in the course of writing that book, I had a couple psychedelic experiences myself.

I, I tend to write in the first person and like to immerse myself in whatever subject I'm writing about.

It doesn't do anything.

And then somebody, actually, um, a person who was much older than me gave me this book by Michael Pollan, "How to Change Your Mind."

Oh.

I love that book.

Yeah

...

How to Change Your Mind.

Yes.

It's really beautiful." It's a look at the aliveness and awareness of that plant.

And, uh, in Mi- even in Michael Pollan's book, "How to Change Your Mind," in his first mushroom trip, he, um, he describes the experience of seeing a plant look back at him, and it's this, this feeling that plants also have awareness, that they're somehow aware of us.

And if that experience is universal and not just contingent and not just, uh, something to do with us here in modernity or something about the way we construct magic mushrooms and what have you, then, then maybe here has always been a tool, um, that draws our attention to the plant.

So to answer your question, I cannot say with any certainty, but it seems a very reasonable assumption to make that our ancestors who were living far more in proximity with the non-human world, and unavoidably so, would have given their attention to plants and would have had that knowledge about what, what plants are good for making cords, what, what plants are good for healing, you know.

Yeah, I would love to.

I don't know if you've read any of Michael Pollan's stuff, like How to Change Your Mind.

I know of it.

I have not read

You know, it's, it's probably too long.

I could consolidate it, top of the read How to Change Your Mind or watch How to Change Your Mind if I had to choose one.

That, that's it.

But then there's like a handful of other, like, adjacent reads, depending on what you're interested in.

Right.

I said earlier that we did have a long conversation about books and his top recommended lists for people considering retreats.

Firstly, just a reminder of the books that we'd already mentioned from his list were Michael Pollan's How to Change Your Mind, which discusses all the leading science on using psychedelics for treatment of different mental health problems and having breakthroughs.

He also highly recommended Michael Singer's The Untethered Soul, whose chapters are described as different mirrors with which to look at oneself, which sounds great, and I'm looking forward to.

Yeah.

And I give him a real credit when I talk about these ideas for his book, How to Change Your Mind, which I'm sure you have read.

Yes.

A lot of people read it because that was really a watershed in the zeitgeist where it became OK to talk about psychedelics and psychonautics.

And I think...

You know, my understanding is, you know, there is some history with the war on drugs and Michael Pollan wrote a book called How to Change Your Mind, which really touches on a lot of this.

But it really put, unfortunately, a lot of the research around, you know, these psychedelic medications on the back burner made it illegal and really sidelined everything for such a long time.

And as you're mentioning, hopefully the door is really opening because I do believe that there is, a lot of potential benefit for some of these other treatments that, you know, there's no reason they shouldn't be mainstream.