Herodicus

How would Gorgias explain this phenomenon? All who intend to become disciples, of whom there are several in the company, and not Socrates only, are eagerly asking, about what then will rhetoric teach us to persuade or advise the state? Gorgias illustrates the nature of rhetoric by adducing the example of Themistocles, who persuaded the Athenians to build their docks and walls, and of Pericles, whom Socrates himself has heard speaking about the middle wall of the Piraeus.

He adds that he has exercised a similar power over the patience of his brother Herodicus.

He could be chosen a physician by the assembly if he pleased, for no physician could compete with a rhetorician in popularity and influence.

He could persuade the multitude of anything by the power of his rhetoric.

Does not Socrates think him happy? Socrates would like to know more about him.

He cannot pronounce even the great king to be happy unless he knows his mental and moral condition.

Paulus explains that Archelaus was a slave, being the son of a woman who was the slave of Alketas, brother of Perdiccas, king of Macedon.

And he, by every species of crime, first murdering his uncle and then his cousin and half-brother, obtained the kingdom.

How would Gorgias explain this phenomenon? All who intend to become disciples, of whom there are several in the company, and not Socrates only, are eagerly asking, about what then will rhetoric teach us to persuade or advise the state? Gorgias illustrates the nature of rhetoric by adducing the example of Themistocles, who persuaded the Athenians to build their docks and walls, and of Pericles, whom Socrates himself has heard speaking about the middle wall of the Piraeus.

He adds that he has exercised a similar power over the patience of his brother Herodicus.

He could be chosen a physician by the assembly if he pleased, for no physician could compete with a rhetorician in popularity and influence.

He could persuade the multitude of anything by the power of his rhetoric.

He instances Archelaus, son of Perdiccas, the usurper of Macedonia.

Does not Socrates think him happy? Socrates would like to know more about him; he cannot pronounce even the great king to be happy, unless he knows his mental and moral condition.

Paulus explains that Archelaus was a slave, being the son of a woman who was the slave of Alketas, brother of Perdiccas, king of Macedon; and he, by every species of crime, first murdering his uncle and then his cousin and half-brother, obtained the kingdom.

This was very wicked, and yet all the world, including Socrates, would like to have his place.

From Cicero and Quintilian, and from Aristotle's Rhetoric, we learn that the Sophist whom Plato has made so ridiculous was a man of note, whose writings were preserved in later ages.

The play on his name, which has been made by his contemporary Herodicus, was, Wost ever bold in battle, seems to show that the description of him is not devoid of verisimilitude.

When Thrasymachus has been silenced, the two principal respondents, Glaucon and Adeimantus, appear on the scene.

Here, as in Greek tragedy, three actors are introduced.

And yet the sons of Asclepius who were at the Trojan war do not blame the damsel who gives him the drink, or rebuke Patroclus, who is treating his case.

Well, he said, that was surely an extraordinary drink to be given to a person in his condition.

Not so extraordinary, I replied, if you bear in mind that in former days, as is commonly said, before the time of Herodicus, the guild of Asclepius did not practice our present system of medicine, which may be said to educate diseases.

But Herodicus, being a trainer, and himself of a sickly constitution, by a combination of training and doctoring found out a way of torturing, first and chiefly himself, and secondly the rest of the world.

But the virtue of the body is health, and this in such a way as to render those who use the body free from disease.

For many persons are healthy, as Herodicus is said to be, and yet no one will proclaim them to be happy on account of health, because, like Herodicus, they abstain from all, or the greater part of human concerns.

With respect to beauty, it is different in every age.

The beauty, therefore, of a young man is to have a body useful for the endurance of labor, viz., for the course and for violent action, and which is also pleasing to the view.

[laughs] Oh, that is noble of him! I wish that he would say the poor man rather than the rich, and the old man rather than the young one; then he would meet the case of me and many a man: his words would be quite refreshing, and he would be a public benefactor.

For my part, I do so long to hear his speech, that if you walk all the way to Megara, and when you have reached the wall come back, as Herodicus recommends, without going in, I will keep you company.

What do you mean, my good Socrates? How can you imagine that my unpractised memory can do justice to such an elaborate work, which the greatest rhetorician of the age spent a long time in composing? Indeed, I cannot.

I would give a great deal if I could.

How would Gorgias explain this phenomenon? All who intend to become disciples, of whom there are several in the company, and not Socrates only, are eagerly asking, about what then will rhetoric teach us to persuade or advise the state? Gorgias illustrates the nature of rhetoric by adducing the example of Themistocles, who persuaded the Athenians to build their docks and walls, and of Pericles, whom Socrates himself has heard speaking about the middle wall of the Piraeus.

He adds that he has exercised a similar power over the patients of his brother Herodicus.

He could be chosen a physician by the assembly if he pleased, for no physician could compete with a rhetorician in popularity and influence.

He could persuade the multitude of anything by the power of his rhetoric.

Does not Socrates think him happy? Socrates would like to know more about him.

He cannot pronounce even the great king to be happy unless he knows his mental and moral condition.

Paulus explains that Archelaus was a slave, being the son of a woman who was the slave of Alketas, brother of Perdiccas, king of Macedon.

And he, by every species of crime, first murdering his uncle and then his cousin and half-brother, obtained the kingdom.

His words would be quite refreshing, and he would be a public benefactor.

For my part, I do so long to hear his speech, that if you walk all the way to Megara, and when you have reached the wall, come back, as Herodicus recommends, without going in, I will keep you company.

What do you mean, my good Socrates? How can you imagine that my unpracticed memory can do justice to such an elaborate work, which the greatest rhetorician of the age spent a long time in composing? Indeed, I cannot.

I would give a great deal if I could.

Oh, that is noble of him! I wish that he would say the poor man rather than the rich, and the old man rather than the young one; then he would meet the case of me and many a man: his words would be quite refreshing, and he would be a public benefactor.

For my part, I do so long to hear his speech, that if you walk all the way to Megara, and when you have reached the wall come back, as Herodicus recommends, without going in, I will keep you company.

What do you mean, my good Socrates? How can you imagine that my unpractised memory can do justice to such an elaborate work, which the greatest rhetorician of the age spent a long time in composing? Indeed, I cannot; I would give a great deal if I could.

[laughs] I believe that I know Phaedrus about as well as I know myself; and I am very sure that the speech of Lysias was repeated to him, not once only, but again and again: he insisted on hearing it many times over, and Lysias was very willing to gratify him.