Hans Morgenthau

If you go up a level for us beyond rhetoric, we think about this as a moral mask.

Hans Morgenthau talks about this.

And you can have this on either end of the spectrum.

You can have this kind of performative, moralism, overly liberalistic foreign policy, which is in and of itself a trap.

Mm.

So when you come back to migration, you and I have got to ask each other, well, what would it be like to be an old person in Trundle? Uh, that's up near Tamworth, and I thought having mentioned Barnaby Joyce, I'd find somewhere [laughs] in New England, uh, or, or maybe St.

George in Queensland, where Barnaby likes to talk about, what would it be like to be an old person up there? You know, seeing out the last couple of years of your life- Probably with a few disabilities and not able really to look after yourself.

How would that happen? And, and if you look across aged care, just one sector of the-

Mm

Australia is not in that boat.

I mean, we have very substantial power on any count.

And the way in which I measure it, Mark, just so that the, the listeners understand that I'm not really making it up as I go along, is that, um, the, the person who's really the founder of, of international relations as we now know it, Hans Morgenthau, spent the first, um, part of his marvelous book, Politics Among Nations, sketching out the nature and the elements of national power, and he identified eight of them.

She was his conscience.

And then There were other advisers, maybe Hans Morgenthau on the right, a capitalist who were wearier of a kind of socialist tint to the New Deal.

Yes, and what I would say is, you know, let me answer that by saying one of Roosevelt's admirable qualities was that he surrounded himself with a highly diverse group of people with, in fact, contradictory ideas.

The best example of this was the Brain Trust, which he, you know, was essentially three Columbia professors, all of whom quite disagreed with each other on how to resolve the economic crisis.

We'd have to double-check.

It was part of this whole series, um, on political theory, like Hans Morgenthau, who's actually worth reading.

And yes, he's part of that, or he was part of that Morgenthau family.

Um, and he was for a time, uh, um, New York Attorney-- State Attorney General, and then, um, and then, uh, he, he was some kind of State Department honcho.