Gudrun Gut

to, because then you do get into ADA and then you do get into the institution where it's like, you know, punk exists in society and because it exists in society and it's not just its own little secret institution.

um culture all the time that inevitably that kind of friction has has in in my case like forced women to recognize like they rush in a punk to say oh my god it's amazing and i feel so free and i feel like i can contribute and be myself in a way that i've never been able to be before And yet, I mean, I have a quote at kind of the end of my essay from Gudrun Gutt, where she talks about that moment for her as someone who at the time didn't identify as feminist.

But she said she reached a point where when all the men around her were being signed to record contracts and none of the women were, that you recognize the limitations of of these scenes and that they inevitably have to interface with institutions.

So there's that kind of, I think workaday part, but I'm gonna let Marie answer the question about the institutionalization of punk, because I mean, it's sort of like as a historian, I have to freeze things.