But I'm curious about on the customer side, where do people put their inference today? Are there a preference or preference shift in terms of what models people want to use? And are they moving away from those that are closed?

I mean, it's highly industry-specific and geo-specific.

You know, I think when you think about enterprise, you know, the trend towards wanting to build more of their own stack, I think we're, you know, early stages of figuring what that looks like because for a long time, it's been hard to kind of stand up your own infrastructure.

It's getting... way easier to do so.

And then even when you look at Europe versus the U.S. versus any other geo, U.S. obviously is heavily concentrated in the two big players.

You look at Europe, it's much more fragmented and there's almost more of a tendency to almost want to ban some of the U.S. closed models.

And so I think, again, we're so early in it all, it's going to evolve pretty rapidly.

Like, I mean, the pace of change is so great that I wonder if flexibility will become the new spine, if that makes sense.

Is there a mistake that you're seeing a lot of AI founders are making when fundraising?

I, I'd say part of it is just they, you know...

You need to get into the mindset of this is, this is a game.

There's a two-week period or, like, again, going back to time boxing.

Time boxing matters a ton.

You don't want to get in a position where fundraising drags on indefinitely.

Many times people will say, "Oh, I'll just give myself, you know, a couple months to figure it out." Then there's no urgency for investors, and there's no sort of process that, that, that you're running.

You're, you're still, like, debating whether you need it or not?

I mean, what is your philosophy around kind of building product or, you know, product design?

Yeah, I would say it probably differs a lot by category.

For us, when you're trying to build for, in our case, a very horizontal product, you want to eventually become a product that can be mainstream.

So you're building for mass market.

So you need to build something that has a chance of solving some sort of universal pain point or set of challenges and try to do so in a way that is very, very differentiated from the incumbents, right? Whoever else is in that category, you're either trying to really try to change behavior change because they're adopting your product Or you're, you're introducing something net new that they weren't doing before.

In our case, we were, we were very much in the former.

It's like behavior change, behavior change is hard.

Mm-hmm.

How- how do you think about this sort of creativity versus, um, you know, sterilizing the content? Yeah.

It's really...

I mean, I think one thing that's interesting, I- you know, different professions...

I mean, part of this I mapped to, you know, crossing the chasm.

So, you know, in certain professions, coding for instance, right now it's very clear we've crossed the chasm.

Everybody's using it.

Every developer is using every sort of coding, you know, uh, agent out there.

Explain what it is and explain how it relates to hiring for you.

Yeah.

... about a category where today, and that's with, you know, a product that's still pretty manual and tedious to use.

Now imagine Gamma automating a ton.

Our API is going to actually make it so that anybody can actually build on top of our platform as well.

So, if you have a business where content creation is, can be core to your infrastructure, you can now build on top of Gamma, and so no longer are you even manually creating content.

It's, it's gonna be a massive market.

Is like, "Hey, take your data, we'll turn it into a beautiful presentation automatically, that you can run a meeting with."

So there's actually multiple different layers.