It's always very subtle work that I think shines in these sorts of films, and that's what it seems full of, subtle stuff.

Yeah, it was, it's sort of like a, quite a complicated process in terms, I mean, the animation was, yeah, so key.

It was always started as a sort of animated animation driven project and Kyle's background was obviously animation.

So he kind of just from right from the get go, like the way it was planned was, was that with that in mind, um, And we started looking at sort of character designs and it was quite a thought out process in that it wasn't, like a character design in the sense of like, we can do anything, we can draw anything, we can make, do anything we want.

And equally, we wanted to have the characters to have variety and to have a sense of their personality and the sheep that we were basing them on.

So it was like, we kind of always tried to get these sort of sheep references, both in terms of like the asset builds, but also in terms of the animation to kind of ground the sheep.

But then there was also the whole process of trying to bring character to them.

Yeah, I mean, we always talk about reference gathering, but what did you and the team do here? Was it a matter of trawling through YouTube clips or did you go out and shoot any bespoke footage? shape reference how did you approach that

What would, what do you find works?

I don't think there are other places that have very different views.

I think that supporting the journalism is probably one of the-... top three messages that you're gonna get with any subscription for any respected, uh, news organization, that, you know, independent news organization.

Funnily enough, at The Guardian, we didn't start out with that message.

We started out with, "Join the conversation, become a member, feel closer to the community of Guardian readers." And it was when we started marketing directly from, uh, using some of the voices of some of the key journalists and making it more about supporting the journalism, that we actually started to get much more pick-up in terms of acquisition and long-term recurring revenues, and that's why the whole thing shifted from a membership proposition to a supporter-led proposition.

And, you know, I have my clients, but also as a, as a someone who consumes a lot of media, I think almost everybody will say something about the value of their journalism, the fact they're holding power to account.

They'll talk about the investigations that they're doing, and how they are impossible without a subscription support.

Do, do you find you need to sort of try and get those teams working together a bit? And what, what are, what are some of the things which you do?