Gerry Spence

So I had nothing to work with.

And I just come back from a trial lawyers college from Jerry Spence, who was the lawyer from Wyoming.

And he told me, Rob, don't worry what the answer is.

Just tell your story of what your defense is.

I mean, it's actually one of the astonishing pieces of lost history is Crowley's relationship to Virek, to the Lusitania, to the outbreak of World War I for the United States, his spy activities.

I mean, for me, he left so many notes in his different writings about his spy activities that it's really undeniable and Jerry Spence, he's a historian in Idaho, wrote a book called Secret Agent 666, which was a kind of extrapolation on one of his articles that he wrote for a scholarly journal about something he'd found out about Crowley being a spy.

And so I had read that when I was doing my original work, and I could probably expand upon his book with another hundred pages of information that he didn't see.

Like, Crowley left notes in Moonchild.

Their presentation was weak in general.

There's an argument Jerry Spence has long said you should get out.

He was talking about opening statement, though, by the way, not closing argument, that you should get out the weakest part of your argument in front and tell them that.

But he means that in the context of opening statement to preview what's going to come, not that you start off with your weakest issue at the beginning of closing argument.

It was the damn doctors.

It was the slammer with medicine.

But it needed to be more told in like a Jerry Spence, like Silkwood kind of style.

the uh uh for it to be persuaded so i thought both sides were unpersuasive in closing and i think the consequence of that is the jury is going to fall back on their original presumptions about this case and it may end up in a hung trial it's the kind of thing that triggers deep emotions uh and consequently uh you you may not get a verdict but i think the chance of a of a them saying not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility is 40 or less

But, you know, as trial lawyers...

Well, Jerry Spence, who I think was still one of the greatest trial lawyers to ever live, you know, one of the things I learned from him is a couple of...

Well, I learned a couple of things from him that are kind of directly relevant to this, right? Which is a lot of people listen, but that just means they're quiet while they wait for their turn to speak.

Hmm.

But then when we started learning how you talk to your teammates, to get the best out of them.

And I see like Jerry Spence is behind you there.

And I, there's this famous YouTube clip or it's from, I think a speech he did one time where he was talking about, he was, he was cross-examining this guy and he says, he just keeps saying, and you're here to tell us the county wasn't negligent.

The county wasn't negligent.