It'd be great to hear you just go into these in a little more detail on how you help the leaders that you coach and the people that you work with develop that listening muscle.

Yeah, well, I think we will always start with helping people experience what it's like to be in the receiving end of them and all the different modes of listening, because that is our quickest route to understanding what's the point, what's the value, what's the gain here of making a change.

And so we will, you know, deliberately help create, sometimes it's a sprint of experiments where we're deliberately at the extremes of different ends of listening and to work out what happens in those conversations that's different from what might have happened if you took your default mode.

And we take things away from people, you know, the crutches and the props that we might lean on typically.

This is very awkward and very uncomfortable and then gradually kind of build things back in and build up.

And keeping it really short.

So I think one of the challenges I see as people come into the listening lab is, and I love this.

Um, how do you see, how do you see, I guess, solving that problem or, you know, sort of attempting to build listening skills at scale across an organization?