Nope.

Long is establishing all of these new state organizations, the 111 bridges that are under construction or gradually built during his tenure.

Many of them are drawbridges because of the use of all these waterways for transportation.

the drawbridge operators became a major element of his patronage.

So the state's hiring all these employees to go out and run the drawbridges, and he hires his loyalists.

He hires his ward managers, the people that swept him into office.

He patronizes them, and they return the favor by patronizing him.

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the local governments become Republican dominated.

If you could just imagine what would happen in a place where you have outlawed the opposition party.

They cannot vote.

They cannot run for office.

They must apply for a presidential pardon to participate.

They have no habeas corpus.

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Um, things are extremely bad and also very uncertain.

Um, you may remember, uh, Lincoln very famously in his second inaugural address, he says that he wants to bind up the country's wounds with malice towards none and charity for all.

And he also, he also makes a couple of, of important communications, um, the month of his assassination when he's talking about pardoning Confederates.

Um, he's talking, uh, he was, he was always very consistent about the Confederate Army's disbanding and the Southern states sending their representatives back to Congress.

Um, the idea being, uh, that they never left the Union.

They're still in the Union.

Then right ahead.

Who do you want to talk about today?

Well, we're, we're going back into the abolitionist crusade and the Southern reaction to this, which takes on a different kind of temper.

In response to the abolitionists, the southerners really develop a reactionary streak, as what I've alluded to before.

a sort of existential crisis where they start realizing the implications of liberalism in America and what that would mean for their society.

They're taking their antagonists among the abolitionist sorts very seriously, and they're coming up with really shocking kinds of conclusions, certainly in an American context.

So we're going back into that today.

I did want to start out with some more material from the abolitionists, kind of as an aside, but I didn't want this to slip away.

Well, that's just... they're basically rebuilding a hierarchy at that point because now somebody's going to have to be in charge and the praxis if you want to see the praxis of that i mean just look at lennon that's that's where the praxis comes into it comes into play absolutely

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Uh, so going back to the Southern response to the abolitionists, um, I've got a, a quote from John C. Calhoun that is a pretty good summary of this.

John C. Calhoun, who we've discussed in previous episodes, uh, he is famous for his conclusion, uh, come up at, uh, come, come out of certain circumstances.

He famously called slavery a positive good.

Uh, th- this is an opportunity for us to talk about the kind of liberalism that was the standard of the Southern elites of the time.

Here is John C. Calhoun's position in, in brief, that men exist on different cultural levels around the world.

Let's talk about technology or literacy or religion.

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Looks like we're going to talk about the Marshall Court tonight, so, um, I'll hand it over to you.

Yes, indeed.

So the big question of the Supreme Court is just how many powers does this body of government have, and how many is it supposed to have and such? The most important figure in the entire history of the court is John Marshall of Virginia, and he proves to be, in some ways, more important in a constitutional sense than Alexander Hamilton was because John Marshall was the great chief justice.

John Marshall was the man that was most instrumental in reading Hamilton's constitutional opinions into constitutional law, or at least our tradition of what we think of when it comes to how to, how we interpret the Constitution.

So ironically, it was yet another Virginian that proved to be the most instrumental of the Hamiltonians, which shows that this was n- this was not just a sectional thing.

This was a broader American kind of conflict.

You have Hamilton from New York.

Uh.

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Legal tradition.

Um, Fred Rodell writes in his history, "An opinion is huddled up in conclave." Perha- or no, no, this is, this is Jefferson, uh, quoted by Rodell.

Uh, Jefferson is critical of this power assumed by the Court of Judicial Review.

He says, "An opinion is huddled up in conclave, perhaps by a majority of one, delivered as if unanimous and with the silent acquiescence of lazy or timid associates of the Supreme Court by a crafty chief judge who sophisticates the law to his mind by the turn of his own reasoning." And so Jefferson is very opposed to this, uh, saying that this is a unaccountable power grab on the part of Marshall.

Now, things follow from this.

Uh, Marshall is the author of several major landmark decisions in Supreme Court, and I will here go through a few of them.

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So, um, go, go right ahead.

We're, we're gonna approach Andrew Jackson tonight and the circumstances of his election.

So Andrew Jackson really came through for America in the War of 1812.

Um, I'm not here to talk about his military career, but it is, it is important in relation to his political rise.

So he really, uh, he, he was really the breakthrough success in the War of 1812, which was mostly a humiliation.

Over on the East Coast, the British were able to go, uh, anywhere they wanted to and wreak havoc.

They occupy parts of Long Island.

Well, jump right in, please.

Mm-hmm.

And what did it accomplish, and so on.

And so they, they have a level of introspection that I think is higher than anything else I could compare it to, considering they're, they're basically running themselves.

But, uh, that's not our topic tonight.

Um, I have-- Uh, I'm going back to narrative.

Uh, in our last, uh, recording, we were talking about the cultural differences between the North and the South.

So we kind of zoomed out for a minute and w- gave, uh, an overview of the origins of cultural conflict based on the demographics of the two sections.

Well, jump right in, please.

no worries at all no worries at all what are we going to talk about tonight sir

We're going to be talking about the rise of the abolitionist movement, the radical new movement to affect immediate abolition of slavery in the United States, a major departure from all talk of emancipation before this time and born out of a new moral imperative that recognized the particular, the very strange and unique evil of slavery and was born out of a serious sense of indignation against its presence under a common law in the United States.

Obviously, this is a much celebrated movement these days and does correspond with practically all discussion of the institution of slavery in modern times.

So they've been kind of elevated in importance in a very serious way.

We must reckon with the abolitionists.

And we will also be talking about the reaction of the southerners to this particular development We had been talking in our recent shows about the Second Great Awakening, and I just had a fascinating interaction.

A week or two ago, I was chatting with this lady I just met, and she was from the Midwest.

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What are we gonna talk about tonight, sir?

Uh, we're gonna be talking about the rise of the abolitionist movement, the, the radical new movement, uh, to effect immediate abolition of slavery in the United States.

Um, a major departure from all talk of emancipation before this time, and born out of a new, uh, moral imperative that recognized the, uh, pr- the particular, the, the very strange and unique evil of slavery, and was born out of a serious sense of indignation against its presence under a common law in the United States.

Um, obviously this is a much celebrated movement these days, and does correspond with practically all discussion of the institution of slavery in modern times.

So they've been, uh, kind of elevated in importance in a, in a very im- serious way.

Uh, we must reckon with the abolitionists.

And, uh, we will also be talking about the r- reaction of the Southerners to this, uh, particular development.

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From what I understand now, confirmation comes first, and so that would mean that confession would come, and then you do communion.

And that's an interesting difference between the...

the Eastern church and the Roman Catholic church is that we have full participation in all the rights of the church from infancy.

So the only barrier there is baptism.

So my son, who's just one, he's been receiving in church ever since he was born.

and does not understand much yet.

He doesn't speak yet, but that's an interesting contrast.

And it was his choice.

Terms and conditions apply.

That's a decent segue to one of the famous vegetarians of the day, who's another figure from the Second Great Awakening, but he's on the secular side of things.

Sylvester Graham of Connecticut.

So he is known as more of a secular figure in the time, though he is of Puritan stock.

The Puritans, as you remember, are known for their abstentious diet, the fact that they didn't season their food, they ate very plainly and were quite proud of the fact that they did not need food that tasted good.

They subsisted, one of their main foodstuffs was baked beans.

Think Boston baked beans, but think of it without any ham and without any salt and without any broth.

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seeking.

I don't mean to make it too coincident with current political events, but I think that we can rather see how that works there.

The fanatic loses what he's pushing for, ultimately.

Going back to Kraven.

Slavery as a reality and slavery as a symbol about which sectional conflict raged for a generation were two different things.

The first was a very ancient labor system, drastically adjusted to local American traditions, and one which may have been almost ready to break down of its own weight in one of the last corners left to it on the face of the earth.

The second was the creation of an inflamed imagination, which endowed the institution with all the ills possible in its theory, and assigned to the slave owner all the qualities desirable in a bitter rival.

but what is more colorful from this

How are you doing today, Mr. Bagby?

I'm doing very well.

I'm happy to be back with you.

Making notes for this evening's discussion today.

Doing lots of good reading.

Um, I think I mentioned last time I've been working with Avery Craven lately.

I'm, I'm not getting-- I'm actually not getting much of my information tonight out of Craven, but I've really been enjoying reading him.

Mm-hmm

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The local governments become Republican dominated.

If you could just imagine what would happen in a place where you have outlawed the opposition party.

They cannot vote.

They cannot run for office.

They must apply for a presidential pardon to participate.

They have no habeas corpus.

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the local governments become Republican dominated.

If you could just imagine what would happen in a place where you have outlawed the opposition party.

They cannot vote.

They cannot run for office.

They must apply for a presidential pardon to participate.

They have no habeas corpus.

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All right.

So we're.

We're getting closer to the real breach between the sections.

And I know I've outlined this several times so far in our series, but I think it's good to do a slightly deeper dive today about regional differences in America.

in the lead up to the Civil War and how they were diverging and also some of the deeper and some of the spiritual reasons why that was the case.

So our focus here is the tail end of the Jackson administration where we left off in our political narrative.

We're talking about the 1830s.

And he has exposed that even though you don't see a lot of Quaker churches around, there are The Quakers, there are people who are still following the Quakers' teachings who are extraordinarily wealthy, and they are donating large sums of money to the worst things that you can possibly think of, like transgender rights and all these things now.

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jewelry or lace, that they will prosecute the woman who does, that they are very particular about what opinions are expressed in their areas.

And famously, they exile people and even execute Quakers who are not willing to abide by those standards.

Famously, they exile Roger Williams and he founds Rhode Island.

It's the origin of several states there.

Connecticut is actually the product of a church split among the Puritans.

We rather focus on what they have problems with, what they emphasize that they cannot tolerate in their areas.

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So, um, go, go right ahead.

We're, we're gonna approach Andrew Jackson tonight and the circumstances of his election.

So Andrew Jackson really came through for America in the War of 1812.

Um, I'm not here to talk about his military career, but it is, it is important in relation to his political rise.

So he really, uh, he, he was really the breakthrough success in the War of 1812, which was mostly a humiliation.

Over on the East Coast, the British were able to go, uh, anywhere they wanted to and wreak havoc.

They occupy parts of Long Island.

Well, jump right in, please.

Hmm.

And what did it accomplish, and so on.

And so they, they have a level of introspection that I think is higher than anything else I could compare it to, considering they're, they're basically running themselves.

But, uh, that's not our topic tonight.

Um, I have-- Uh, I'm going back to narrative.

Uh, in our last, uh, recording, we were talking about the cultural differences between the North and the South.

So we kind of zoomed out for a minute and w- gave, uh, an overview of the origins of cultural conflict based on the demographics of the two sections.

Well, jump right in, please.

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That it finally results in civil war.

Um, the Southerners resolving on independence because they no longer believe that they can maintain their particular interpretation and the checks that they've developed against this centralizing tendency.

Both, well, I think maybe especially the Republicans, the Southerners Republican in the Jeffersonian sense, I mean, are particularly deluded on this point that they could read the Constitution and say, "Yes, but we disagree with its interpretation from these official sources, such as the Supreme Court.

All we need is to have our men in the Supreme Court." They, they finally get that in the Jackson administration.

He puts a Jeffersonian in the chief justice's chair, uh, Justice, Justice Taney of Maryland, uh, the famous man who decides the, the Dred Scott decision, which is, uh, another landmark decision we'll eventually get to.

This is not enough.

Yeah

Looks like we're gonna talk about the Marshall Court tonight, so, um, I'll hand it over to you.

Yes, indeed.

So the big question of the Supreme Court is just how many powers does this body of government have, and how many is it supposed to have and such? The most important figure in the entire history of the court is John Marshall of Virginia, and he proves to be, in some ways, more important in a constitutional sense than Alexander Hamilton was because John Marshall was the great chief justice.

John Marshall was the man that was most instrumental in reading Hamilton's constitutional opinions into constitutional law, or at least our tradition of what we think of when it comes to how to, how we interpret the Constitution.

So ironically, it was yet another Virginian that proved to be the most instrumental of the Hamiltonians, which shows that this wasn't, this was not just a sectional thing.

This was a broader American kind of conflict.

You have Hamilton from New York.

Yeah

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more details.

The local governments become Republican-dominated.

If you could just imagine what would happen in a place where you have outlawed the opposition party.

They cannot vote.

They cannot run for office.

They must apply for a presidential pardon to participate.

And

I'll, I'll try and look it up while you, while you go on.

Okay.

All right.

So w- we've, we've talked a lot about the, the legal, um, the industrial circumstances of the post-war South.

Um, things are extremely bad and also very uncertain.

Um, you may remember, uh, Lincoln very famously in his second inaugural address, he says that he wants to bind up the country's wounds with malice towards none and charity for all.

And he also, he also makes a couple of, of important communications, um, the month of his assassination when he's talking about pardoning Confederates.

Then right ahead.