GEMA

But we know the answer.

Well, now, yes, and because the PRS, like the German GEMA, is very generous with songwriting and royalties, and then they learned a lot about the whole publishing Jews and Frozen up and downs and the Sony and Michael Jackson and all of that stuff.

Oh, yeah.

All regular listeners know this.

That is how come sometimes some people will complain that I have not received royalties from Gamru.

Maybe he is with BMI or ASCAP or GEMA or SAMRU or any of these PRS CMOs.

There's a little bit of sort of a rivalry between CMOs.

So the moment you move to a different CMO, we cannot work for you.

And this is again, When you say, well, why do you have a publisher versus just doing it on your own? I'll speak to us.

At Cobalt, we have a pretty robust society relations team, right? People who can pick up the phone at GEMA in Germany or SOSM in France or PRS in the

UK.

See, this is why you guys need this.

Crowded is an understatement.

In Germany, the collecting society GEMA won its case against Suno in the Munich Regional Court on July 31st.

That is a decided loss, not a pending complaint.

And elsewhere? Because a single adverse ruling in one European jurisdiction is survivable, but a pattern of them across multiple territories starts to look like a structural problem for the business model.

I am your host, Alba Ribera Martínez.

And in the summer, the Munich Regional Court ruled in favor of the German Music Collecting Society, GEMA, finding that the AI music platform, Suno, infringed copyrights by training its models on protected musical works without a license.

And building on his ample experience in the world of IP, I have with me today, Jan Bernd Nordmann, uh, to discuss the implications of this ruling.

So, uh, Jan's the co-founder and, uh, partner of Nordmann after having been partner for more than two decades in one of the biggest German law firms specialized on IP.

It has, in the original version, more than 100 pages, which is, at least for German standards, very long.

So I try to be as brief as possible.

GEMA, the plaintiff, is the German Musical Collecting Society.

And the defendant was Suno.

I'm not really familiar with those, but what we are looking at is what's happening in Europe.

Because GEMA, which is kind of the sister society of Sorkin, they also sued Suno and they won, right? The outcome was very positive.

This claim was about a training, using existing songs to train AI and they won their case.

With the Sorkin case against Suno, it's quite a step a little bit further, right? Because it's the output.