Gary Doer

So, what are some of those factors if he's not to blame?

Well, I think one is, is Wab Kinew, uh, very similar to the situation, uh, uh, the PCs were in under Stuart Murray after Gary Doer was elected in, in, uh, 1999.

Right.

That is, a, a very popular premier who could appeal to both, uh, business people, middle class voters, and, and, uh, working class folks, and Indigenous voters as well.

You know, like, talk to Stuart Murray about his years as leader of the PC party-

Mm-hmm

... after Gary Doer, and he, he wasn't having a whole lot of fun doing that.

And, and Hugh McFadyen, who followed up on Stuart Murray and also lost to Gary Doer.