out and suddenly say that he was innocent?

I have publicly said that I anticipated that Koberger was not going to go away, you know, not going to quietly into the night because it is so consistent with the character structure that he demonstrates openly and the motives of people like him.

that it was clear that the moment this invisible character who had gotten a taste of infamy and manipulation and domination of the public, being front page news, went away, that he would crave it on a certain level.

But the other aspect of this personality, whether he even realizes it or not, is that there's a terrible cruelty to this whole idea.

I did it.

I didn't do it.

You have closure.

multiple, multiple times, which it's kind of interesting that that that the prosecution never acknowledged that.

Do you think law enforcement is specifically trying to open another one of these windows?

Well, let's put it this way.

If it was a complete coincidence and she just decided to do that on her own, which is entirely possible, I don't think she could've done a better job of phrasing it in the way that one would advise her to do, right? Because what I think she did there was very similar to what you would do if let's say you had, um, I don't know, a couple or, or friends or whatever that you think were involved together in some kind of deed.

You have to rupture them.

Well, what you do is you c- you isolate one of them and you say something like, "Look, I think you had no taste for this.

I, I think that you, um, got caught up in this 'cause you were scared.

I think you got pressured into this.

Do you think there's any chance that that could be the case?

Um, why would someone, and not asking for anything, why would someone do that?

There are several possibilities depend upon what really went on here.

One possibility, and you know, perhaps I'm cynical about these things, but I don't think that the type of person who would be responsible for abducting an 84 year old woman would write an apology note without it having a selfish motive.

From a pragmatic perspective, I think it may have been trying to preempt the legal situation that could be coming down the pike.

So the person is trying to say, just in case I get in trouble for this, this wasn't intentional.

That's possibly one.

Second possibility is that this is a phony cover story to hide the fact that it was really just a homicide and the accidental death was precisely what was planned the entire time.

But as more time goes on and there's so many people working on this case and you've got the FBI and you've got President Trump caring about it and there's so much pressure to solve it, I guess I would just think if it was within her orbit, someone wouldn't they have found that person by now or at least be on to someone

Mm-hmm.

That's the whole point of owning them.

The, you know, we place too much emphasis on the sexual with serial killers, missing the point that that's just one form of domination over them.

But it's all about the idea that you do not have a humanity that allows you to leave or hurt me in any way.

You're now mine.

And so with a, with a stalker type of person like Jim is describing, the idea would be to take her and keep her alive and have her always.

Now, if the idea is to assert control over Savannah, are we to believe that after all this time the person has resisted the desire to assert himself and come forward and talk about it? It's hard to believe, but I think it's a very interesting idea, especially if you're dealing with somebody who is deranged.

Mm

[laughs]

So you have a person who is watching every single aspect of you to render you a science.

Sort of like the way that Brian Kohberger had that alibi that he was in the park looking at stars.

I always thought to myself, yeah, that's stalker brain.

I know everything about you, but I can't touch you, right? Like the astronomer will never actually touch a star.

It would kill him, right? It's the symbolism of the stalker knowing more about a thing than having actually touched it.

Talk about a schizoid, uh, style, right? Although we don't know if he has one.

Right

Mm

...

but you're just bad at them as oppo- And so you stay away from them because they're too overwhelming, as opposed to simply not desiring them.

Um, but, but what you see in schizoid people is a proclivity to, to enjoy solitary activities, often highly intellectualized activities, nature activities, things that might, might involve things that you could have a lot more control over, um, than, than things that are unpredictable, like human beings.

Um, and I think when you're dealing with a, an, an architect, uh, with a kind of obsessional style who seems to have had an isolated area for torture with all his tools around him, like a kid in a candy shop, you start to envision somebody who drew intellectual stimulation-

Mm-hmm.

There's no evidence of a person who is stalking somebody because they're obsessed with them, like the people that write hundreds of messages to the target or try to reach them.

We don't see any of those classic things.

Do you agree with that, Dr. Boccato?

Well, I have a few things to say about this case, and I think in some ways I'm sort of uniquely suited to look at it because it touches on two areas that have been major ones for me in my research.

First of all, dismemberment and mutilation need to be distinguished.

I worked with Dr. Ann Burgess, Dr. Victor Petreca, Michael Stone, Dr. Michael Stone, and we came up with definitions to distinguish those offenses.

It's important for people to understand that dismemberment, according to our work, really means the destruction or removal of a large part of the body, the torso, the arms, hand, pelvis, legs, or feet.

And any destruction or elimination of a smaller part thereof of any, you know, is would be mutilation.

And the reason it's important is there are differences in the psychology and motives of people according to which of those things they're doing.

but doesn't it go without saying that they're odd?

Doctor Brucato has not examined Bryan Kohberger, but he has followed the case closely, and we asked him about these photos found in Kohberger's browsing history.

If you're casting a fantasy, the only thing these people have to have in common is that they have the characteristics of who it is that you think rejected you, so they'd have to be popular, attractive, and female.

It's a type of trolling behavior, uh, and getting stimulated by looking at people who in his mind have these characteristics and fuel the fantasy.

Certainly it would not have been difficult to see the women or even study them, or the house, based on their almost constant posting on social media.

The other possibility, of course, is that you're using things like TikTok videos.

Because for people like this, everything is intel.

"Oh, there's a door there.

There's a lock.