Byamukama Fred

[laughs]

Actually, for me, Charles, I call it the Byamukama effect, because everyone saw Byamukama scoring points in the early days, because the guy just w- went and grabbed these fellows by the scruffs of their necks and, and was just ...

Put the fear of God in them.

But the, the, the question you, you ...

That's Vernon Jordan for you

youYeah, but, but, but, but let us go back to this thing, uh, and, and, and now we're, we've, we've looked at Noah Gava.

But I think that what, what Bob says about, uh, what local government Minister, uh, Balam is doing and what, uh, Fred Byamukama is doing in works, it's really surprising that it took the intervention, almost some maverick ministers, eh, to unlock, to unlock ...

I mean, you know, they ...