Frank Cooper III

And we've spent a lot of time talking about this with, with the CMOs who've been on our podcast.

One of the things that has stood out to me from our conversation with Frank Cooper, who's the CMO of Visa, was when he said that the CFO and the legal team has to be a CMO's best friend, not the creative director, which is who you might expect.

He also said, however, that if something does go wrong, it is usually not that deep for people, and I totally agree with that.

I actually think our tolerance for things that have historically been deemed un-brand safe, or however you say that, is actually a lot higher for people than marketers think.

But moving on to the second lesson from CMOs, marketing really hasn't changed all that much.

So for some context, many of the CMOs that we've spoken to have been in this industry for decades, so they have really seen it all.

I mean, just think about Frank Cooper.

He was the CMO of PepsiCo before Visa, and then there's a Netflix CMO who was at Spotify and at Conde Nast before that.