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Form 13F

Form 13F

Search complete. 81 mentions across 41 episodes found for "Form 13F".

Oct 29, 2026

Alex ThornGUEST
60:41
uh or or the fundamental case which i think is only getting stronger it's also the fact that it's under owned the crowd is not here right so you have a chance uh if the bottom's in we're not saying you should knife catch right the we're not saying come in at 58 and hope it's the bottom bottom's probably in yet the crowd has not yet returned and i think that's part of the reason we've seen it resilient uh over the last month or so as well because the people selling assets right now they don't really own bitcoin
Sean HaganHOST
61:08
And we've seen some reports from some of the ETF providers at Wells saying those that the few that do hold it aren't selling, which brings me to the idea of the 13F filings, which you mentioned in your report.
Sean HaganHOST
61:20
You know, you're saying that the recent ETF selling sits almost entirely with the multi-strategy and macro funds, the basis desks, the banks just trading books.
Sean HaganHOST
61:32
You know, while wealth managers and sovereign funds just keep being a net buyer, the next 13F filings are due by November 16th, I believe.
Sean HaganHOST
61:41
What do you expect them to show? And what do you think would bring that fast money back in addition to the current buyers we're seeing?
Alex ThornGUEST
61:48
Yeah, I think it was not the fast money that took Bitcoin in August from the 60K range to the 80K range.
Alex ThornGUEST
61:54
It was long-term believers.
Alex ThornGUEST
61:56
And if you look at the Q2 13Fs, it's Brevin, Millennium, D, Shaw, Tudor all exiting fully or declining their holding substantially, while Mubadala and Abu Dhabi investment, like sovereign wealth, and then Morgan Stanley were the largest adders.
Alex ThornGUEST
54:28
The data supports it.
Alex ThornGUEST
54:29
So in particular, the 13F filing data, institutional investors have to file these reports called 13F filings every quarter talking and disclosing what their positions are.
Alex ThornGUEST
54:41
And, you know, they don't have to disclose, I guess, for spot like Bitcoin.
Alex ThornGUEST
54:45
We never got quarterly filings by like Coinbase telling us who owned all the Bitcoin.

6 MINS LATER

Alex ThornGUEST
60:44
um you know knock on wood here has not been found to have any serious vulnerabilities and just today coinbase's cso chief security officer published that they had run bitcoin core through all the top frontier cyber models and found only two minor vulnerabilities which they responsibly disclosed so i i checked that as bitcoin core mark safe right from the ai so again that can change new versions come out they're gonna have to be tested but um i i think that's um one of the things to watch but again doesn't look too bad here and you know we're getting through it i i would say you know most of the risk frankly that's been really troubling to me on ai and bitcoin cyber has been hardware wallet stuff and you know it's getting patched and but again not one sat was taken from a multi-sig in the cold card exploit so there are ways to mitigate that as well
OptiHOST
61:35
couldn't agree more okay What is your speculation on what the Q3 inflows or institutional perspective of Bitcoin? What do you think that's going to look like?
Alex ThornGUEST
61:47
So we expect, so the 13F filings are due, I believe, 45 days after quarter close, which is November 16th.
Alex ThornGUEST
61:52
And unfortunately, historically, all the biggest holders file on the very last day.
Alex ThornHOST
13:43
Yeah, just that you can see in the 13F filings.
Alex ThornHOST
13:45
I'm very much looking forward to, ironically, also mid-November is the due date for the Q3 13F filings.
Alex ThornHOST
13:52
Those are the filings that institutional investors have to make to disclose their positions.
Alex ThornHOST
14:00
And of course, the Bitcoin ETFs are disclosed in those filings.
Grace RemingtonHOST
41:31
Well, let's move right along here.
Grace RemingtonHOST
41:33
The first wave of third quarter 13F filings is in.
Grace RemingtonHOST
41:37
804 institutions have reported about $2.2 billion in spot Bitcoin ETF so far, and BlackRock's iBit is almost half of that.
Grace RemingtonHOST
41:46
Now, while firms that already owned iBit barely moved, the net new reported ownership came from 108 firms buying in for the first time.
Sean HaganHOST
42:09
And we'll come back to them in a minute.
Sean HaganHOST
42:10
But for starters, these filings don't necessarily mean that these firms are net long Bitcoin.
Sean HaganHOST
42:18
One of the main drivers of the 13F growth in previous periods has actually come from what's called the futures basis trade.
Sean HaganHOST
42:27
And hedge funds will go long spot via the ETFs, and then they'll short Bitcoin futures, collecting that futures premium.
Tillman HollowayGUEST
27:29
The basis trade is real.
Tillman HollowayGUEST
27:31
I mean, go look at the 13F filings for Citadel, Millennium, Jane Street.
Tillman HollowayGUEST
27:36
They've got huge spot Bitcoin ETF positions, and they also have hedged short CME futures positions.
Tillman HollowayGUEST
27:43
Like they're just playing the spread.
ThreadguyHOST
7:12
Does he still hold it? We don't know.
ThreadguyHOST
7:13
This is the problem with 13Fs.
ThreadguyHOST
7:14
But- Druck had a ton, but the real reason it's relevant is that there is a potential comparable election that could be going on that is rather close to us trading US markets in 2028.
ThreadguyHOST
7:30
And look, I don't know if we're going to dip 30% in a fucking day on AOC 28, but I don't know.
Samuel D. BrunsonGUEST
61:58
They need to file this quarterly with the SEC.
Samuel D. BrunsonGUEST
62:02
Yeah, the 13F, right? The 13F sounds right to me.
Samuel D. BrunsonGUEST
62:08
And I'm going to be a little bit, I'm not a humble person.
Samuel D. BrunsonGUEST
62:10
I'm a law professor.
Samuel D. BrunsonGUEST
66:36
And in this case, because I don't have inside information, I don't know precisely what happened.
Samuel D. BrunsonGUEST
66:41
But I do know that it was a bad and harmful move for the church because the church did violate the Securities Act.
Samuel D. BrunsonGUEST
66:50
A $5 million fine admittedly divided $4 million and $1 million for this particular 13F violation.
Samuel D. BrunsonGUEST
66:57
From what I can see, 13F violations often are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars for the
Matthew PetersonGUEST
14:11
So we're looking out... two to three, maximum four weeks.
Matthew PetersonGUEST
14:15
And so we eliminate through 13Fs like 90% of the market.
Matthew PetersonGUEST
14:18
So we go from like 6,500 companies to way under 600 companies.
Matthew PetersonGUEST
14:24
And then we start looking at what strikes, where are there mispricings among all of these? And we had to, of course, use a lot of technology and we automated it, which is terrific.

9 MINS LATER

Matthew PetersonGUEST
23:53
So I was like, I still need to do my 13F analysis, which is the beginning of our process.
Matthew PetersonGUEST
23:57
So we started to automate this.
Matthew PetersonGUEST
23:59
So who are the investors? What are the 13Fs? Compare the two files.
Matthew PetersonGUEST
24:03
Tell me what changed.
Alex ThornGUEST
17:49
Same thing if we look at the if we look at the.
Alex ThornGUEST
17:54
The 13F filings, and we expect Q3 to be fully reported in November 16th, but this goes through Q2.
Alex ThornGUEST
17:59
Look at all the funds that have reduced.
Alex ThornGUEST
18:01
It's Millennium, Brevin, Goldman, Schoenfeld, Capula, D.E. Shaw.
Mark RzepczynskiGUEST
65:33
So what people do is that they're going to have to say, well, now I've got to find a new model, so now you're going to have to sort of increase the amount of computing budget to try to find new models, which is called the Red Queen problem, that we're going to have to run faster in place just to stay even.
Mark RzepczynskiGUEST
65:53
So So what they did is they looked at the 13F filings from a lot of major hedge funds, and they noticed that there's an increasing similarity in the positions that a lot of major hedge funds take and major stocks.
Mark RzepczynskiGUEST
66:10
So what we're finding out is that all these strategies that have used more and more non-trend following techniques, the machine learning techniques, that actually they're eating their own.
Mark RzepczynskiGUEST
66:27
Yeah.

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