But how do you think we can bring the consumer and the consumers of the future into that regenerating the whole food and farming system? What role do you think they have in terms of steering what happens on the farm?

I think we know that consumers have the power by where their feet take them and their purchasing, isn't it? And although we can't influence that, it's providing that information for them to be able to make their own decisions, isn't it? So at Leaf, a lot of our education outreach work is that kind of experiential piece.

So People don't understand what they can't see, what they can't hear.

So it's really engaging them with those environments and giving them those opportunities to engage with farmers like Tom.

And Tom does visits on the farm because actually that's really important to get them to within in that environment.

And we know through Open Farm Sunday, for example, that we see an increase in people's understanding of what farming with nature means, but also that kind of trust and understanding of British food and farming.

um and so we need to bring people in and we need to open the discussion and be open to having those discussions as well not be be nervous or scared of what we're saying because actually we're doing a good job and we are everyone's on a transition and it's recognizing that it doesn't just happen but ultimately everybody has a role and they have influence by what they buy you know wherever they shop um and when we look at young people as well it's empowering them to see that they do have influence and that they will have an influence in the future and letting them see that things are happening and that work is already being done.

So working with people like Alice, researchers and the Adopt Fund gives a brilliant avenue for doing that.