Evgeny Morozov

And especially those people that were going by public transports or by active modes, walking and cycling, in majority said that they missed their commute.

And what they actually missed was not the seamless travel from A to B, but what they missed was, so in follow-up, interviews we tried to hone in what it was that they missed and we came to an overarching principle we called friction so people miss friction and friction is a great book that that sort of informs this this way of thinking is to save everything click here by evgeny morozov and he says that basically in capitalism every service or new app or new product sells itself by making our lives easier While in fact, the meaning of living comes from friction, right? The notion of that there is some hardship in your day actually at the end of the year makes you look back and understand that is where the meaning came from.

So meaningful mobility is...

The opposite of what in traffic engineering became the norm to think of mobility as an empty line between two points where the A and the B matter.

And it's got its own human dynamics, which I'm very eager to discuss and explore.

so would you say that it's actually like ai has the potential then kind of going back to your book clear right future um where you laid out kind of vision of radical humanism would you say that in contrast to information technology or like networked information would you say that ai has or llms have the potential to like change what it means to be human is that why they because i agree with you that was really interesting about the debate between aaron beninov and um evgeny morozov specifically around morozov sort of was arguing that you know as progressives it's not just about using ai as a tool for progressive ends because that tool itself might change the ends that we actually want to achieve this is the point yeah this is the

point so All technologies have changed what it means to be a human being.

I was in the Courtauld Institute earlier this week, and I happened to, because there's a Surat exhibition, and I happened to just pop into the next floor down that's got the medieval Gothic altarpieces.

It does not treat them just as a kind of, like, reflection of a changing base.

Your show is more attentive than I think most of the suite on the left, uh, shows on the left about, like, uh, changes to the architectonics of capital, and this show you did with Evgeny Morozov is, like, a great example of your entry into these kind of debates.

Um, but, like, the show is not reducible to it, and you're just as interested in the kind of, like, relative autonomy of these different layers of the social formation and how they actually relate together.

Why is, what are the tactical practices that are enabling people to win elections? How is that related to the changing composition of our cities? How is that [laughs] related to new patterns of economic development? It's not just, uh, one does not necessarily trigger all the others or explain all the others, but their relationship to each other is precisely the thing that Marxism is endeavoring to explain.