Was that an issue at all for you, or how did you get past that?

It wasn't, it wasn't easy, but it's just in the context of it, it just feels very safe.

One of the fascinating things is, it's strangers.

You're- you are not allowed to say your last name or what you do in the real world when you get there, so you connect with people.

And I realized after a few days, I relied so much on people knowing who I was or what I did, that it, it was this veil between me and oth- other humans.

So you get to know people at such a deep level without really knowing any of the normal things that we would say.

You meet someone here, "Oh, what do you do? What's your, you know, where do you live?" And that j- it just feels incredibly safe.

Why did you get more serious about them? You just wake up one day and you're like, "Today's a new day?" Or was there a breaking point? Was-

And I think I felt like we were very vulnerable to that kind of deception because we all just wanted so badly to believe.

I think a strong aspect of Silicon Valley culture is I've noticed, maybe this is why Stuart Butterfield's in my mind, because he had this great manifesto.

I think it was Flickr or Slack or one of his companies that said something like, we want to win.

It was like, we want to create great things and we want to win.

It was like acknowledging the fact fulfillment one gets from doing great things and winning, which struck me at the time as I, it's like, that's so great because it's so honest and where there, there's a, in, in, what I'd noticed again is this black and white thing with a lot of Silicon Valley rhetoric is either people talk about the mission and changing the world.

And like, we're all altruistic or the people who are like, Oh, fuck that.

I'm just like, I'm here to make money or here to, here to do business.

They didn't need social