it change your price or your conditions? Yes.

So I think I've thought about this a lot lately and like you were just saying, your sort of tiered system, different tiers and different builders might get different pricing because they all sequence differently.

I often find, and it's really hard to do this with the big builders, right? I often find the builders that use the same trades a lot are going to get a lot more continuity on the job.

They know how they work.

They know how they price.

My cousin owns a big electrical company.

He does a heap of work for Hayser.

Got to get smart.

What's that evolution like in a 10-year career thus far from going the guy on site to the guy running the business? What are the key changes and what have you had to get your head around as a business, as a business leader rather than a, a leader of a crew of guys or just a crew of tradies?

Yeah, so 100% right.

When I started it was, it was me, Ben, and one apprentice o- o- originally.

So I think, I think it's really tough in a trades business and probably most business because you are the best technician on your team.

That's what you start out as being.

You start as being the best at what you do and you provide the most company value by you doing this with your hands on.

As you grow, there needs to become a point where you hand the reins to your team and you don't micromanage and you learn to let go because you can't outwork five or 10 people that are working for you.

[clears throat] Is it hard finding good chippies or d- do you, or carpenters? Do you, do you, and, and do you try and get in lads and lasses out of school once they sort of, if they wanna become carpenters? Like, do you have to create that pathway for youngsters coming into the industry? Like how, how easy or difficult is it to find tradespeople to work in the business?