So maybe just walk us through like how, how-- what was your reasoning there and, and how do you see the trade-off space?

Yeah.

So these are different things.

Um, they have pros and cons, each of them.

We started Venice just as a normal company.

Uh, so we're a Wyoming corporation.

Um, and for a year we built the product, uh, all self-funded and didn't raise any money.

Do you have to build your own infra for managing the, the routing of the models and, and resources?

I guess, forward-thinking ideas of where this could grow into? Can you help elucidate our listeners as to where you see this going and what type of integrations you might see in the future?

Yeah, I mean, the macro trend is just that digital finance is going to replace analog finance.

And that means that blockchain-based infrastructure is going to replace... analog banking fiat infrastructure.

I feel like that's an inevitable trend of humanity that will occur.

And I'm amazed that a lot of people are so resistant to that idea, especially anyone who's used a bank, especially tried to send money internationally or do anything outside of the little normal box.

That world is going to go away.

And in its place will be a whole new world of Digital tokens, digital forms of value representing all sorts of things that are done on an analog level today and a whole world of new things that can't be done in the analog world today.

So what can a user expect in terms of how much money they're willing to pay for the service?

all right i also saw you on the chopping block podcast one of my favorite podcasts you were there also very good there and you spoke about how like uh giving unfettered access to ai models is good but it is going to be it is now controversial i largely agree with this i think you're right but i'd like to to probe you a little bit on the kind of edge cases which are i think where the controversy might might lie So first of all, the obvious one is, do you think AI models have providers have like a responsibility to safeguard or regulate against encouraging violence or suicide or creating pornography, CSAM and that kind of stuff?

This and all the related debates are going to be hotly contested for a while in our society.

My entire moral framework is based on the principle that humans own themselves and that humans are their own property and that that property should not be violated.

And the entire civilization and contractual relationship between people can be built up based on that premise.

So when I think it's something, should something be legally, should something be legal or illegal? First and foremost, it comes down to like who is being harmed.

If no one is being harmed or if you're only harming yourself, then it should not be illegal.

If you are harming someone else, then usually in that case, something should be illegal.

So it's so why do you need a token VVV and then later

[laughs]

He, he, like most tourists in crypto, like most people who got involved for the wrong reasons, was advocating certain regulations in, in the government.

Um, he, he had been donating to the Democratic Party.

He had been meeting with people, uh, in Washington, basically to help shape the regulation in ways that would favor his exchange or centralized exchanges generally.

Um, that on its own is not so egregious.

I mean, basically everyone in business that's not principled d- does that kind of thing.

Um, but I, I essentially had to call him out on that set of recommendations that he was making.

Mm.

How does it work? This is one of the things that many people, when I asked online, hey, what should we ask Eric Voorhees? One of the things they asked is like, wait, what's the privacy story exactly? How does it work? What's retained? Explain mechanically what's going on.

Yeah.

Okay.

So every AI company in the world, with the exception of us and a few other startups now, take the prompt that you send in and store it forever.

And they take the response that comes out and they store that forever.

They're both tied to your ID and your information, and it's all collected forever in bulk.

And they generally acknowledge this.

Have you given any thought to thinking about agents as customers?

Why should we support, um, what's going on with, um, OpenAI versus Anthropic? We should go with the, the peacenik one, the one that doesn't wanna create murder bots." What's your take on that whole beef back and forth? And then Logan, I'll go to you in terms of the revenue ramp.

I mean, first, the revenue ramp clearly happened before the controversy, so it'll be curious or interesting to see what happens after it.

Um, I wonder if the incredible growth of that revenue is what gave Dario, uh, a little more confidence in taking the position that he took.Um, personally, I found it, um, I found it brave.

Uh, it's very rare that any company is, is willing to do anything against what the federal government says.

Um, like I've, I've come from a world where we continually battle regulatory agencies and, uh, it's a, it's a total nightmare, and, uh, most companies just comply.

They just comply.

Um-

Murder bots.