I don't know.

Right.

And so the same, in my opinion, is true with the discovery of bread.

I got into some difficulty about this because I gave a talk yesterday.

where I acted out how I imagined it would have happened, right? And, of course, this total speculation, and people took me at my word, but the speculation is we do know that early domesticators of grain and actually before domestication of grain were making porridges.

Okay, so we're living on porridges probably for close to 2,000 or 3,000 years.

Right, which is grains that have been mortared and pestled and added to water and soaked and cooked.

Do you have anything that you're working on now?

Could you give us a quick version of h-how that happened and just so we have the history on it?

The more important bit is not how it arrived [chuckles] in San Francisco, it's how it became the mythology of San Francisco.

In my, I guess, somewhat cynical perspective, um, th-there's nothing incredibly unique about San Francisco sourdough, and in fact, science has proven there's nothing unique about the bacteria that are... reside in San Francisco sourdough cultures.

Um, but what you have is a series of, of really three events that just come to the top of my mind that, that solidify when you think what's the, the culturally significant food of California even, San Francisco sourdough is, is the, the first thing that comes to mind.

So the first is the Boudin Bakery, which has a starter, a, a culture that comes from 18, you know, the 1849 Gold Rush of, uh, California that they have saved and fed and preserved and advertised the heck out of, uh, e-ever since.

It was saved from the Great Fire of San Francisco in a, in a story that I suppose may or may not be fully true [chuckles].

But, but there is something romantic about that starter that's 150 years old and, and is San Francisco.

So how did you learn to bake, and, like, how is your bread different than

What's the story behind the type of bread that's more common here in American grocery stores?

Yeah, so for 6,000 years we're making bread.

Nobody knew what made bread rise.

It was just magic.

You put this glob called sourdough starter into a dough and like magic, it rises.

(instrumental music plays) By the 1870s, 1880s, Louis Pasteur discovers that yeast are living things, they consume the starches, or really the sugars in bread, exhale carbon dioxide, the carbon dioxide makes the bread rise.

And once we know that yeast is a thing, you can make bread much faster than with sourdough.

It has no holes.

What's the story behind the type of bread that's more common here in American grocery stores?

Yeah, so for 6,000 years we're making bread.

Nobody knew what made bread rise.

It was just magic.

You put this glob called sourdough starter into a dough and like magic, it rises.

(instrumental music plays) By the 1870s, 1880s, Louis Pasteur discovers that yeast are living things.

They consume the starches, or really the sugars in bread, exhale carbon dioxide, the carbon dioxide makes the bread rise.

It has no holes.