You think Flames fans are gonna love him, too, hey?

Oh, from the, from the day that they traded for him, I knew he was, you know, kinda the perfect replacement for Blake Coleman, and I don't...

Uh, that, that may sound a little much, because I, I've been on record many times as saying Blake Coleman was the most complete hockey player I ever covered, uh, as a Calgary Flame in the 30-plus years.

Uh, you know, he's not the greatest player, he's not the best player, but when you take all the different things he did, um, that guy just literally did it all.

And the leadership role and the personality, he was beloved in that room, beloved in the community.

And I, I...

Look, M- Middleton can't replace that per se.

Mm-hmm

[laughs]

So that, that's a new thing in the world in the last handful of years where people can't wait to see who's playing with who.

But you know, don't be, uh, mistaken.

The, the Parekh, uh, Middleton pairing is not, it, it, it's listed on most people's depth charts as the second pairing, but it's not.

Uh, Jan Kundláček and Zach Whitecloud are the, the second pairing on this team.

Middleton is a depth pairing guy.

Parekh still has to prove he's an everyday NHLer, and uh, obviously will be tru- you know, trusted to excel on the power play.

Yeah.

What have you made of them and where's this team kind of at going into the season?

Well, you know, the one thing is very clear around the league is this is a full on rebuild now.

And that was something that the ownership group was hesitant to, Ever commit to, but once Craig Conroy traded away Wieger and Kadri last year, you know, guys with long-term contracts, that was pretty symbolic that, okay, we're ready to rip the Band-Aid off and do this the way that everybody kind of thinks you have to do it, which is go down to the bottom to get to the top.

So with that in mind, you know, the last piece they kind of got rid of was Blake Coleman in the middle of the summer.

So not a lot has been talked about.

there um i know i've said about blake coleman for years he's the most complete hockey player i've ever covered in calgary um as a calgary flame i'm not saying he's the best player but you know in terms of completeness he he absolutely did it all and was one of the best leaders this team's ever seen so that's a blow uh but again it opens up a spot for for several other youngsters to get out there and get some minutes in so You know, Simon Nemec is going to be the guy that everybody's kind of talking about going into camp.

He's the guy they gave away two first-rounders and a second-rounder for.

Nice touch.

The guys who are available, some of the offseason moves that Craig Conroy pulled off as he continues to build this thing up, what have you made of them, and where is this team kind of at going into the season?

Well, you know, the one thing is very clear around the league is this is a full-on rebuild now, and that was something that the ownership group was hesitant to ever commit to.

But once Craig Conroy traded away Wieger and Caudry last year, you know, guys with long-term contracts – that was pretty symbolic that, okay, we're ready to rip the bandaid off and do this the way that everybody kind of thinks you have to do it, which is go down to the bottom to get to the top.

So with that in mind, you know, the last piece they kind of got rid of was Blake Coleman in the middle of the summer.

So not a lot has been talked about.

there um i've said about blake coleman for years he's the most complete hockey player i've ever covered in calgary as a calgary flame i'm not saying he's the best player but you know in terms of completeness he absolutely did it all and was one of the best leaders this team's ever seen so that's a blow uh but again it opens up a spot for for several other youngsters to get out there and get some minutes in so You know, Simon Nemec is going to be the guy that everybody's kind of talking about going into camp.

He's the guy they gave away two first rounders and a second rounder.

Where's the fan base at? Is there a general understanding of the process or is there starting to be some irritation and people starting to get frustrated with all of this? How would you sum it up?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, glad we got rid of Kuzmenko.

Kuznetsov, to me, from like a week or two after he got called up last year, it was very evident to me and many people in management that he was here to stay.

and would probably be a number three or four defenseman in this organization for another 10 years.

Like, I think he made that big an impression, not only just when he came up, but they were watching him on the farm as well.

And so when we do these little depth charts, and Craig Connery says he likes to see Zach Whitecloud play with Perak in that second pairing.

Do you think there was an emphasis to try and make that a better situation for some of their young players?

... thought that was a, for, for us on the outside, I think that was the real indication of, of exactly where this team is committed and going.

Yeah.

It's, it's great.

Like, and I think, I think the word I used a lot when that week happened was relief.

I, I, I do think a lot of fans, and I think some people in management, um, felt relief that, you know what? They finally, they're finally doing it.

They're finally doing what everybody in this city has wanted them to do for, you know, quite a while now, a- and escape that mushy middle that this city just got so tired of.

And, uh, and, and, and, and when they did that, I was surprised.

So, so turned out to be a pretty eventful week or so for the Flames, didn't it?

Yep.

He, he was still surprised by the trade, but they had left at the end of last season understanding that, yeah, we're not real keen on signing an extension here, uh, so it's probably best if we part ways, and that's exactly what happened.

So Flames, you know, found out about it months ago, um, and then decided that this was something that was worth pursuing, had the extraneous picks.

Um, and, and they're, they're, they're late first-rounders, both of them, and, you know, I, I like it.

I, you know, Sipikov was a throw-in.

That's not, that's not relevant at all to this discussion.

Neither is Etienne Morin.

I don't think so.

Mm-hmm.

And you just can't afford to let someone walk for nothing, and, you know, I think Gaudreau was a classic example of just how much it can set an organization back when that happens.

When, when Johnny, you know, decided he wasn't coming here, and then a week later Matthew Tkachuk informs him that he's not coming back.

Completely unrelated.

Everyone needs to always remember that.

They were unrelated.

Tkachuk was never resigning in Calgary.

... and really haven't been at any point since they acquired him.

No.

So no, it's just not...

It, it just speaks to how teams just don't let guys go anymore.

They, they're, they're too valuable an asset to just let go for nothing, and that's why you hardly ever see guys now hit UFA status.

And, um, you know, I, I, I, I don't see them...

Uh, look, uh, when you talk to Conroy, he, when you mention about draft picks and using them, weaponizing them and all that, he always mentions the possibility of going out there and getting a player in the age-appropriate window.

And I just sought clarification from him just saying, "Can I just..." I don't know if that's changed, that, what's age-appropriate, because I, I really feel like- Last year it might've been more like a 22 to a 24-year-old, maybe 25.

Yeah.

What stands out to you as far as the makeup of the Carolina Hurricanes and how that team was built? What was the most important in kind of getting to this point? That's maybe when we look at the roster and, and obviously we always kind of think of this in a sense of how can the flames kind of apply and how are other teams going to try and emulate what they did to get to a championship?

Yeah, it was buy-in.

It was all buy-in.

Everybody bought into the work ethic.

So like, they they're the hardest working team in the league and we've said that a lot about the flames this year that they were one of the harder working teams and they've all bought in too now that's where the comparisons end because at the end of the day you also have to have you know high-end talent and some veteran savvy and all the all the different ingredients they have uh look the flames are a millennium away from from having all those uh but but in in terms of The way they did it, it was the same sort of way that the Flames are trying to figure out how they can do it with being undermanned.

It starts with the coach, and that's all this is.

Talking to Tom Dundon, the owner on the ice after the game, and anyone I talked to out on that scene on that ice, they just said none of this happens without Rod Brindamore.

yeah you know um i think that people start going through the the names a little bit and i'm wondering if there was any kind of chatter around the draft or around the stanley cup final as far as who any teams might be interested in ahead of the flames like is that something that people are talking about at this point or was it pretty much focused on the game at hand

I don't think there's, uh, any dispute there.

Yeah.

I, I...

Look, there, there's a possibility that all this is, is, is, is, is a mental health break for Freddie Andersen, right? We don't know if it's an injury.

We don't know if it's mental health.

I mean, he's kinda had some struggles in the past.

Then with the passing of his agent the other day very publicly, uh, and how he had to deal with that in front of the whole world, um, you know, may- maybe all that has taken its toll.

'Cause they're not, they're not all gonna, they're not all gonna graduate and, and be guys that turn into real NHL prospects in your organization, right?

What is it that Vegas does so well that nobody else has been able to do against Carolina in these playoffs?

Well, I would say two things.

One is, you know, they're a much bigger team than Carolina.

They're a bigger team than anybody.

And so they just impose their will.

You know, I was looking at the stats last night.

Cole Smith and...

They've got two firsts, four seconds, and two thirds.

Before we get into the specifics and, you know, the John Tortorella conversation with the challenge, just, uh, from a, a straight-up entertainment standpoint, tell us, uh, your in-person thoughts on the first two games of this series.

Well, I, it's two games in, so it's a little early, but, like, this has the makings of being a classic.

Like, I mean, both games have been, uh, you know, back and forth and back and forth, but at times feeling like they weren't ever gonna be close.

And, you know, comebacks in both games for the winners.

Uh, I mean, it's everything you kinda want in a hockey game.

A little controversy with the, with the, with, with the challenge, but, like, the, the stars have come out to shine here.

Like, and, you know, just showing how deep both teams are, it's a, it's somebody different every night.

Uh, there, there's, uh, there's been a lot of, from the, the team that you're covering for Sportsnet and sportsnet.ca in the Vegas Golden Knights, there's been a lot of, uh, stories worthy of telling.

Huh

... story, which, uh, I'll follow up on later with Ras.

But, uh, uh, you know, they, their relationship went far beyond, you know, player and agent.

Um, Brendan Lemieux, Claude's son, one of his sons, played with Rasmus Andersson at Barrie, uh, with Mangiapane and him.

So they'd go out for beers a lot and hang out.

And, uh, you know, he didn't say fatherly figure, but I think that he's kinda been that for him.

And you think about the year that Rasmus Andersson's had with, uh, you know, he knew he was g- eventually gonna have to leave Calgary.

I remembered that part

[laughs]

... w- that story, but I, I, I'm getting old.

But I, you know, I, just about how he was gonna go to Boston, and then he didn't kinda hear anything for the last couple days, and he was kind of in suspended animation thinking he was done as a Flame, but he wasn't sure, and he was just waiting for the final contract to come through for, for an extension, a max extension.

And then, you know, he was so frustrated by the fact that there was radio silence that he said, "You know what? I'm not doing this.

I'm not...

I don't have to make a decision on where I'm gonna sign next year, so I'm not gonna sign anywhere.

So trade me.

Johnny Gaudreau.

[laughs]

...

Sean Radko, so that, that's a new record.

Good, good restraint.

Um, yeah, and MacKinnon, I mean, here's, here's your leading goalscorer this, this league, and yeah, he was banged up late last game, but, uh, last night, but he doesn't have a goal in this series, and he hasn't really, he hasn't really been, uh, all that effective, uh, to be honest.

So, um, what's happening in Vegas is really quite special.

I mean, under Tortorella, they're 18-4-1 since he joined the team.

[laughs] I, I mean, the proof is in the pudding here, right? Um, okay, so aside from the 3-0 series lead, which I would imagine is shocking for all of us, what is, outside of that, the most shocking thing or most surprising thing on either side that you've seen so far?

Yeah

... leaving with that sixth pick overall, even if w- if it's a defenseman, it's not sexy.

I keep saying that.

It's not-- To me, it doesn't address the, the biggest problem you have in your organization, and it doesn't sell jerseys, and it doesn't get people more jacked up to buy tickets this year or next.

It just doesn't move the needle if it's a defenseman.

And that's not to say they're not gonna get a defenseman who could be a franchise defenseman.

But I'm just telling you about perception and, and marketing and, and PR and, and, and so to me, yes, if you can move up a- at a reasonable pri- reasonable's probably not even a possibility.

That's right

Mm-hmm.

And that's, that's unfortunate, and boy, does it ever look awful for everybody involved.

So, um, you know, the situation in Toronto to me is, is the one full of the most calamity.

Uh, that's, it's the biggest punchline.

You know what? You went with a PR disaster for a GM.

Time will tell whether or not it was the right move or not, but not many of the people in the hockey world think it will be.

And you got a superstar on that team, uh, that nobody knows whether he wants to come back.

[laughs]

Right.

I do think that there will be a lot of talk between the Flames and maybe San Jose, Toronto.

I think in that top six, I think there'll be a lot of phone conversations.

Like I'm sure there obviously are in the past too, but some years it's just not, nothing's negotiated.

Like when Celebrini is the number one guy or Bedard, nobody's don't even bother calling because they're taking that pick.

And most of the top five picks don't get moved anyway, top 10 picks.

But I do think that there'll be a lot of discussions about it because I don't think it's that far-fetched to suggest that maybe San Jose would say, look, how can we parlay this? We do want a defenseman.

year.

Where is the mindset in Calgary? Is there an appetite to rebuild, or is that not a topic that you think ownership wants to go down that path with?

They are in for what I call the high build.

The hybrid rebuild is the term I always use.

It's very rarely used and very rarely effective, but they're trying to do what Dallas did, which is just have one or two really great drafts and hit the lottery on a bunch of your picks and turn things around a lot quicker than obviously what happened in Edmonton with the decade of darkness.

Ownership points to the decade of darkness in Edmonton.

Ownership points to the Buffalo Sabres for the last 20 years.

Ownership points to the Detroit Red Wings for the last dozen years.

And you don't see them having any appetite for it.