ENGO

So it's one of the things that we as a committee do regularly.

We seek many opportunities to engage with all stakeholders, ENGOs, NRDC, EDF, Earthjustice, and other stakeholders, so we can at least talk about issues of concern and engage meaningfully on these issues.

So your perspective, Jim, in confirmation that these opportunities are important and continue to this day, well past your time as assistant administrator, is gratifying to hear.

Let's pivot to litigation because there's no dearth of that going on.

They have convinced ranchers and farmers and now are convincing school-aged children through studies that cattle are killing the planet.

And they have started partnering up with what we now call public-private partnerships with ENGOs.

So let's take, for example, the Nature Conservancy, the World Wildlife Fund, many of those others who get enormous amounts of money from the federal government every year.

to the tunes of four to five hundred million dollars a year.