I think Emily has done some interesting work also on what, uh, proposals for how this might happen in the US, so may- maybe you can speak a bit about that.

Yeah, and I think it's been really interesting watching how other people have managed coal phase out, I think specifically, especially when it's been on purpose.

[laughs] 'Cause US coal production's down by about 50% from peak, and I think one of the things that we've been looking at a lot is whether there are opportunities to really step into a situation that is really not going well.

Like, a lot of these extraordinarily chaotic transitions that have been happening and have been very visibly enormously damaging, and think about how would you do this differently and how could you kind of prove to people that if you were managing this it could look different.

So this is a bunch of work that I've done with Mijin Cha, who's at the University of California, Santa Cruz, specifically on the Powder River Basin in Wyoming where, other context here, the US is extraordinarily unusual, possibly unique in the world in that we have very, very little public ownership of resources and kind of critical energy industries.

The Powder River Basin is an unusual exception to this sort of.

So the coal is federally owned but then leased out to private companies for mining.

Sort of what did we have to build or create that doesn't exist today?