Ilana has been applying this to her studio for years, and it shows the quality of relationships and outcomes she describes throughout the episode.

I think back to when I got my first job.

I got it because I had a different business card, and I tried something new and different that was memorable.

There was a lot of people that were vying for this job, and at the time, I don't know if I mentioned this to you before, but I had made my CV as a chocolate bar wrapper.

So I was walking around with chocolate bars that... and that was my CV that I'd put on their desk of the hiring managers.

And that's the first kind of time I did something I would say like a little gimmicky like that, which is why I hesitate towards scents of business cards because I know what that actually looks like when you're on a bus to an interview and it's hot and you're trying not to get your chocolate bar CV to melt.

[laughs] I once showed up to an interview, thank God I had a, a spare copy because it was just like a melted chocolate in my bag.

She's been living her own philosophy since before she had the language for it.

We can make the stuff faster.Can we think about it faster? Do we need to? Do we ought to actually enjoy the part where we can think? So how has this slower approach to thinking and ideation worked for you in the studio?

It's been working well for us.

I really think it's important to take a pause, to s- to slow down, and honestly, that's...

We've always taken a pause in our work.

When we're, we're working, for example, on brand identities and we're developing logos, it's always been my philosophy that you have to sit with it.

We can do our sketches, we can do...

But things take time.

But how do you trickle it down into your ecosystem to make sure that everyone feels seen, heard, and enabled well to do that?