It's hairy [chuckles]

... below the 48th parallel.

Um, but anyway, um, so, you know, we started in Buffalo, and, and, you know, I, I got a job.

I, I was a contractor, and I was renovating houses and planting a church and learning, taking some seminary.

I dr- I drove, I drove to seminary every weekend.

I drove four hours each way.

I know it sounds like, you know, uphill in the snow both ways, but I, I drove four hours to seminary in Pittsburgh every weekend, slept on the floor of an office building in a, in a, in a sleeping bag.

[chuckles]

There's no way they'd know.

But, but I would say that I think one of the ways that 30, 40 years from now that the church is gonna stand out, it's gonna be a truly embodied place.

And I think other people are gonna do this as well.

They're just gonna be like, "No, this far, no more." And so I think part of...

I mean, and this points back to what I would say the marks of a church.

I've written before about how there are six marks, and you can number it differently, but there are six marks should be true in every culture and every place and every time.

So, and part of that is partaking in the, in the, in baptism and the Lord's supper.

Mm-hmm.

And hearing you two talk about it, my first question is, why did you team up to talk about this? What was the import of this for both of you from where you both sit, both in ministry and professionally? Yeah.

Well, I guess I'll start because I approached Corey.

So one of the things that I love is I love church planting.

You're very kind in your introduction, but I love church planting.

I still got some church plants in me, but Mrs. Stetzer is currently not allowing me to fully embrace this.

So instead of being a dean and a church planter, it's probably not a great combination right now.

But anyway, so I love church planters and I love small churches.

I'm

Mm.

I think local churches need to figure these things out, and they're in different contexts and different cultures.

And so I don't wanna bind the conscience.

This is why this, you know, if your pastor doesn't say something about so-and-so is just so, I think, un- unhelpful, offensive.Um, and driven by other, other agendas than I think, um, the scriptures.

So I would say in general, here's where it's tricky.

Like, like, because I get called up and people's, you know, on, on a, a newspaper or a radio sh- or a radio show, whatever.

So, you know, I'm, you know, I, I, I'm a cultural commentator in a way that a n- a normal pastor generally should not be.

Ed, I'll give you the final word, word of encouragement.

There's stuff inside of us that hurts when we get criticized.

What do you do, Ed? Yeah, I mean, part of it is you sort of get used to it.

I mean, I've been in this space saying things that people disagree with, you know, I don't know, 15 years.

And so I would say that, like, I was talking to one person.

You'd actually know his name.

He sort of became very well-known, wrote a book.

And he's like, I just, people are yelling at me all the time.

But what is your working filter for, I need to say something or I'm going to let this go?