... to TMZ Live.

Good to see you.

Listen, I think there's a good probability she was sober for an extended period of time.

She was on ... took a long-term course of treatment, like eight months, and after that began identifying as ...

Uh, she started talking like a sober person.

But what takes somebody out after a year or two of sobriety, it's things like relationships that often take people out.

So I, I wouldn't ...

... you know, falling and all? Could she become somebody who presents sober but is still using?

Drew.

Thanks, Tony.

Speaking of medical practice and common sense, I spent my entire morning this morning, and this is where we've got to focus some attention at some point.

Let me just tell you that it's been a minute since I've been on this panel.

And so much has happened.

You know, I can kind of reflect on the progress that is being made.

I understand it's slow.

And thanks for your incredible show and all the work and the great comments you routinely make.

Have we reached that tobacco moment with

social media? No doubt in my mind.

I've always thought tobacco was a good model for what the screens do to us.

It's the exact same phenomenon.

And I would even argue when it comes to things like porn and gambling, it's a crack pipe.

It gets worse.

We have to be careful with the model of addiction per se.

Look, and

There's a bunch of theories going out about the police, but the am- amount of medication is really hard for me to understand.

Yeah.

Uh, let, let me sort of set the stage for you.

It's, it's a very complicated, and of course, I mean, it goes without saying, it's ridiculously tragic.

I mean, it, it...

You, you...

I can barely breathe when I hear some of the stuff that goes on in court.

Okay.

Death, it doesn't have to be from an OD.

No, no.

Because you typically end up on the street.

You end up on the street because you're, you start losing your work, you lose your family, you lose everybody, everything, and you go to the street and you start shooting drugs 'cause it's more effective and it's cheaper.

And yes, then you get very, very sick, and you don't care.

See, the disease of, of addiction is a disease of motivation.

The usual motivational priorities get usurped by one overwhelming priority that takes over everything else, which is get drugs.

if you actually wanted him to break a pattern?

Isn't that the answer that we have to commit these people to some kind of care with certain conditions?

Well, I'm going to circle back to tell you what the problem is, but I'll jump ahead and talk about sort of solving.

Yes, some people need custodial care.

That's a fact.

It's a fact of the human experience.

It has always been a fact.

But you're not really talking about that population.

What is your single most important advice for people around healthy living and healthy aging? Or comment on the stat too, if you want.

He just

lays it right out.

And if you want to, I just recommend it if people are interested and it's around the page 100 or so, he gets into it and just lays it out nicely.

And there's lots of weird little, I can't do it as well as you can.

And there's lots of weird little, I can't.

That's why I ran a guy.

I was like, can I really, can I tell it the way he did? I can't.

So in the way that we approach mental health in this country, seeing the transformation that you had, is there anything that you would want to change? Would you want to make diet like a baseline therapy? I know we're not suggesting it's going to be perfect and the cure all for everyone, but do you think it's important enough for us to change the way we approach it?

What's going through your mind as a professional?

Well, I've got a bunch of ideas.

One is I really appreciated Senator Moreno's comments who said, you know, you got on media, you made these sweeping recommendations, and idiot.

Politicians followed your recommendations.

And that's where things really broke down.

This idea that he doesn't guide any, he doesn't shut anything down, he has no relation to these things, of course is materially false.

The idiot politicians like my great state of California followed him to a letter and then kept it shut down and damaged untold lives.

What's going on? But why won't CNN and Jake Tapper ask more questions and hold up some emails, some diary entries, place some soundbites on CNN and elsewhere where Fauci clearly lied? They seem to only want to go after Republicans.

there's so many so but here's the thing that

got me uh first of all i'm i'm heartbroken for them i hope they're okay they're both i would call them good if not christina at least dear friends she and i did a podcast together for like a year you know she came in on my podcast for a year to kind of connect it to your mom's house and it was a joy By the way, quick aside before I complain.

When I first saw the Mother Inferior special on Netflix with her.

Her stand-up special, yeah.

Her stand-up special.

I just went, that's a super bright woman.

And way more bright than she's letting on here.

What is it about that age, that like Lord of the Flies age of boys that would be like you go along with something bad?

I believe that.

Yeah.

And so if they're not getting at these things, it really...

It's con- it's not even confusing to me.

I just...

I wonder what it looks like from their perch.

It, it must be so frustrating.

Just do that more, right?

So...

[upbeat music] If there was ever a time to be rationally ready, it is now.

I urge you to consider getting one of the emergency kits from The Wellness Company, because TWC has seven different kits that are customized for a variety of situations.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to take a look at each considering, say, what we've just been through in California with the fires.

I was happy to have the field kit on hand, and the Contagion Kit in particular is suited for what is being predicted to be the next outbreak.

That would be the H1N5 or avian or bird flu.

Of course, the same experts from the COVID era are freaking out about this potential pandemic.

[whooshing]

... about how he met Mr. Carolla.

'95, '96, I was doing Loveline with Ricky Rachman at the time.

Then these television producers showed up and said they wanted to do a TV show.

I'm like, "How, what's that? How do you do that? Sounds interesting." Ricky did not make a deal with them.

The people then turned to me and said, "Who should do this show? Who do you wanna co-host with?" Which was, uh, nothing I had ever contemplated.

And I went out, and I was running, and I thought, I can tell you, I can sh- literally show you the spot I was in, that I bet the guy that does Mr. Burcham could do this.

I bet that guy.

Mm

Mm.

And as such, the s- the, the psychoanalysts started believing they knew the solutions to all society, and all ills and all everything.

And the first three heads of the National Institute of Mental Health were psychoanalysts, wouldn't, w- o- two of which had never set foot in a state hospital or even a psychiatric hospital, and one had set foot in, in one, one summer, but really had no idea what he was looking at, because he wasn't even a doctor.

He was an entomologist, if I remember right.

And so here were guys that had no understanding of chronic psychiatric illness, who had never been in a psychiatric, chronic psychiatric hospital setting.

They decided, much in the line of these post, post-structuralists, which are, read about the post-structuralists and their impact on everything academic and political now.

They, they just, the French from 75 years ago, who the French today will have nothing to do with, the philosophers from 75 years ago destroyed our academic system.

Craig's good stuff.

Mm-hmm

And I was 34 years old or something when we started that show, and it just ended one day, and I, I didn't know what to, it was so stunning to me.

I was like, you mean I'm not gonna see this person? I'm not gonna see Cl- I, I, what am I supposed to do?

Legendary.

Yep.

And, uh, Norm gets up and he goes, "Oh, man, I just, I just love Bill, sorry, but I just love Bill Cosby.

I love him.

I just love this man.

[laughs]

But, you know, I do know how science is done, and one of the, one of the crazy things during COVID is all the medical literature went one direction, and that's never the way science goes.

It's always a back and forth.

You, you, you learn the literature, you learn the back and forth and the arguments, and you figure out where the truth is.

Whenever you see things going all one way, your, your skepticism should go way up.

And so us and fats have been that way for a long time.

In the meantime, uh, food industry, no fault of theirs, they're just doing their job, have figured out ways to give us yummier and yummier and more addictive stuff largely built around carbohydrate.

[laughs]

Uh, are you satisfied with the rate of progress, uh, the, the progress that has been made here in, in Trump 2.0? Do you think we are getting close to the truth?

Uh, the truth about COVID? N- no.

Uh, you look, you just showed a, an example, a clip of him two years ago, and only now are people like, "Oh, I've heard of that." You know, it's like that was- that's been around for a while now.

And we, we...

And my fear about there being legal action is people will get very defended, and then the, the truth will be further obscured.

So I, I...

Uh, that's why I'm against, you know, a lot of legal, uh, sort of maneuvering to try to get s- satisfaction for having been put through so much.

Nobody learned in the media.

At some point, this has the ability to suck us all down, to draw us all down.

Yep.

100%.

And, and that's why it's important to kinda n- take your own position and constantly reevaluate it and look at the extent to which you're being sucked into some vortex.

So let, let's talk of the things that are contributing to that vortex, as we're describing it.

Social media is creating craziness, right? It, it's literally incubating people to develop ideas and extreme radicalized notions, it, with an efficiency we've never really had before.

And the extent to which sorta sinister forces might be at, afoot in terms of accelerating some of that or picking certain people that are pr- are more prone to it, we don't know.

It does

Yes.

Looking at you is why I do not [chuckles] get my shoulder evaluated.

I'm not gonna do it.

Well, be one up-

I'm not even gonna get an MRI because it goes to what you're dealing with.

I'm not gonna let it happen.

I'm asking you, how would anybody like me say, "Oh, that's a good one and that's a bad one?"

Yeah, it- it's why you have doctors.

I mean, we have lots of experience with these tumors.

The other thing that, [coughs] to me, excuse me, I have a cough, too, [coughs] that this is a symptom of [coughs] is how poorly we tr- teach biology.

People have no exposure to biology, uh, and biology is literally infinitely complex.

And prostate cancer, in particular, is a brilliant tumor.

It finds way, or it, it learns through evolutionary adaptation in real time to find its way around everything we do.

That's it.

Yeah.

I mean, the chromatin is open.

The nur- the developmental process is extremely complex and delicate and prone to error, and you don't wanna do anything that can contribute to that error.

Where's one of the great ironies in all of this story, one, of course, I think people are becoming increasingly aware that the Tylenol manufacturers themselves have been worried about Tylenol during pregnancy.

It's gone back and forth, but they've shown, so course of 10 years, some real serious concern.

They called it a heavy concern.

The other thing that's really an irony is the American College of Physicians, I was doing my board reviews a couple months ago, and the rheumatology section, they're, they, in the course of that review, they recommend that only one medication be considered to be continued during pregnancy.

Right.

Yes.

The...

Oh, in the first episode, he's doing a eulogy.

It's one of the greatest shows.

(laughs) I was so...

You know, when, when they could try things and do all kinds of stuff and use their minds to try to push science forward.

People died anyway.

... and what does it tell you is winning and losing?

How do you get them out? How do you identify and get them out or make sure they don't get in?

It's not easy, right? They get around the parental controls, they get around things.

And I think the main thing is to get them out and socialize them.

It's what Charlie was sort of advocating for.

But there are, there are deeper things afoot.

I mean, the people that manifest dark triad are the ones really prone to being radicalized.

And remember, these are mass formations.

Roll it.

A first time killer, no criminal background, kills somebody in cold blood, it's international fervor, and he's joking about it online.

Yeah, Brian, it's very difficult and- and none of us really know this kid yet and the details have not been released, so this is pure speculation.

But what we are seeing is people that are being radicalized typically are high in what's called the dark triad, which is Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy.

Some people more one than the others.

Psychopathy is primarily a genetic disorder, it's something where people don't really feel emotions.

Narcissism, uh, people think people have a sense of that, but the great liability in narcissism is envy and empathic failure.

Again, not appreciating that other people really exist.

... his mind, in, when your past experiences?

Yeah.

Uh, we, we went off to Amherst College, and then he went to Harvard Business School, I went to medical school.

And, uh, I'm going along, doing all these wild things, uh, practicing medicine and then doing radio, and he shows up and he goes, "I wanna, I wanna show you how to form a business.

We're gonna do a dot-com company." And of course, I was hearing about all the dot-com stuff in the, in the wind, and he'd got some seed capital from a company in Orange County, like, a million dollars.

Yeah.

... asymptotic curve would develop around viewership and, and engagement and this kind of stuff.

And we literally (laughs)...

This was a company, I mean, it had lots of traction and engagement and stuff, people were kind of intrigued by it, so people were stopping by and looking at this thing.

Yeah.

Uh, we w- we went off to Amherst College, and then he went to Harvard Business School, I went to medical school.

And, uh, I'm going along, doing all these wild things, uh, practicing medicine and then doing radio.

And he shows up and he goes, "I wanna, I wanna show you how to form a business.

We're gonna do a dot-com company." And of course, I was hearing about all the dot-com stuff in the, in the wind, and he'd got some seed capital from a company in Orange County, like, a m- a million dollars.

Any, any thoughts there?

I, I hear about it.

I, I don't, I don't believe it.