So what are the essential components of an effective strength and hypertrophy protocol?

Okay, so what I would like to actually do is, is walk you through both of those because, as we mentioned before, they overlap, and so I wanna hit those concepts right now.

These are, as you say, these are the non-negotiables that have to happen in any training program, and, and I'm referring to these in the strength and hypertrophy conversation, but these are true of power development, speed development, muscular endurance, uh, endurance, any other thing.

These are things that just have to happen for any training program to work.

My frequent collaborator, Dan Garner, will constantly say, "Consistency beats intensity." The literature will show you very clearly adherence i-is the number one predictor of physical fitness outcomes.

So we wanna do something that you will engage in, will, uh, you'll put effort into, and you'll be able to repeat consistently over time.

So that's number one.

What are the ways that people can induce hypertrophy?

Can you walk us through the nine different adaptations that you mentioned earlier and give us a way to assess our level of adaptation in each of those nine?

All right, the very first one we want to talk about is, is movement skill.

This is really about human movement so that you stay injury-free a- and you can continue to train for as long as possible.

So what are the minimum requirements? Now, if you can have access to a highly qualified physical therapist or movement specialist, that's the best route.

Go to them, have them identify all of your movement patterns, overhead pressing, squatting, running, all these things.

That's your gold standard.

If you want to do it yourself though, here's a, a very simple four-step solution.

only.How often should we be assessing our fitness for each and every one of these?

And also you've got this here, which is a gentleman, I believe, whose blood test results you did, similar age to me, and you took him from not so good to great and we'll talk about that as well so hold on for a second while we we touch first on the subject of um sleep and energy which is one of the first thing you talked about a lot of people listening struggle with sleep and they also in their waking life feel variances in their energy um if we start then with sleep what are the like most people problems of sleep

this is a great question we'll start off and in fact i think this is a nice framing of everything we're going to talk about We want to be weary of what we call health anxiety.

This is over fixation, over concern, worrying too much about little things with your blood work.

with your sleep, everything, you're in a really great spot.

So we can look for some upgrade, but we want to be careful of pushing that line.

Why that also matters is if we look at the 8 billion or so person population, we probably need more people to pay attention to their health than to not pay attention to their health.

We're not in an abundance of people caring too much.

Is that muscle

So when we're looking at sleep, um, like how, like what would you h- like what are some of the best practices to improve the amount of deep and quality sleep I get?

Great.

You ask several good questions.

We'll come back to deep specifically later if you remind me.

Uh, that's an interesting one you threw out there.

This is actually a perfect example of the three avatars.

So if you're looking at avatar one, someone who has no sense of their health whatsoever, a off-the-shelf consumer wearable is super helpful, incredibly valuable.

Um, [lip smack] and kind of weaving into the next theme of, of the combo, like, when it comes to things like VO2 max, um, like, what does the science say, like, if I want to take my VO2 max, I think it's at, like, upper 40s right now, and I wanna push that up to, you know, close to 60.

[laughs]

If people ask me that one commonly, like what is the difference between... 'Cause, 'cause I've dealt with probably five or six of the highest contracts, uh, in, in professional sports in America-

Yeah.

That doesn't mean the other people, um, have no shot, but, but those people are guys and girls that are, like, on the bubble.

Okay, so they're on the bubble, but because that they do all those things right, they have a seven or eight-year career.

What do they say?

"I'm tired all day, can't figure it out," or, "I don't have the energy I used to have," or, "I can't sustain output like I used to," whether this is physical, uh, "My recovery is longer than it used to be," or, "I just can't hang working as many hours as I used to do.

Uh, I get fatigued at the end of the day cognitively." I'm not of the camp that this is entirely mitochondria, but I certainly will agree that energy would be the number one.

In fact, probably the most common question I've ever gotten in my career is, "What separates these world performers from the rest of us?" And people want me to say things like, "They work harder." Th- they, they, they don't.

They are categorically though better at energy management.

That is the one thing that seems to be most consistent, again, with the world's highest performers, athletes, entrepreneurs, leaders, executives, you name it.

However you're defining success, when you get better at managing energy, you're more effective.

Okay.

What do you think the complaints are due to? Elitism?

It's, it's that too, but it's also, like...

Like, I've done it, where I'm like, I can't tell you how many things I, like, kind of legitimately pioneered, and then other people are out there saying it with no credit.

It's jealous.

It doesn't matter.

Like, if you're really there for it, what you should care about is people get better information, right? So when people get out there and spread your information, why are you bitching? But it's also, at the same time, hard being like...

Get that back knee down.

Yep.

What do you think the complaints are due to? Elitism?

It's, it's that too, but it's also, like, like I've done it, where I'm like, I can't tell you how many things I, like, kind of legitimately pioneered, and then other people are out there saying it with no credit.

It's jealous.

It doesn't matter.

Like, if you're really there for it, what you should care about is people get better information, right? So when people get out there and spread your information, why are you bitching? But it's also, at the same time, hard being like...

Get that back knee down.

To be like, "Man, I did something original."

Yep.

Do you want to elaborate on that?

Yeah, I actually appreciate the way that you set it up.

It's cool that we've democratized health, right? When we were kids, the only way you get any sense of your sleep was to go to a sleep hospital.

And in large part, that's still the case.

So the fact that we put relatively cheap consumer grade health advices on people is a net win.

The benefits of things like basic trackers, there you go.

Accountability, awareness, people tend to make better choices when they know they're being watched.

Is that a skill? Is that something someone can learn to do to basically just get sleep in short doses when you find the time?

So if we're thinking about how we can monitor our progress, so if we're thinking about what are some of the indications that our training, however we are applying that, is working, what are some of the things that we want to think about from a systems-based lens?

We always wanna hedge towards performance, meaning what is the outcome goal? Are you trying to get stronger? Then are you getting stronger? Let's not get lost in the plot here, right? If the goal is, "I want to get to my first pull-up," are you getting better at pulling your body up? That, that is key metric number one, and it's funny because people tend to gloss over it, but then they'll get so deep into other metrics, I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa.

You're getting stronger [chuckles] or you're not." Like, that is, that is the thing.

If, if you want to be running, if you want to be losing weight, if you want to be sleeping better, if you want more emotional control, whatever that primary target is, that should be the primary target.

That's specificity.

That runs champion.

From there, we walk behind it and say, "Okay, what are the indirect measures of that?" And I'll get a little bit technical here, but we will often split them into multiple categories, ones that are sensitive and ones that are specific.

Okay

From your perspective and from your world, what is it that we should take as coaches when it comes to strength and movement and how we train and help our athletes prepare for the game of basketball?

Yeah, so this is really good.

If you go back to the nineteen seventies or so when strength training first became really acknowledged as a legitimate thing for athletes, right? So you remember prior to that, it was not acceptable.

It wasn't till we got the University of Nebraska, and we got Boyd Epley and people in saying-- I don't know if you guys actually know that story, but Boyd was effectively the first strength and conditioning coach in athletics.

We had bodybuilding.

We had Arnold Schwarzenegger.

We had Joe Weider.

[laughs]

Like, essentially, what are the things that work, and then what are the things that may not be as effective?

Yeah.

Okay, I'm actually appreciate you to frame it that way.

The-- this is actually all that matters.

The way we'll call this in physiology's sake is the performance outcome is king, and it's the same thing with psychology.

So one thing you'll notice from the people I resonate with is if it's working, it's working.

I'm not talking about placebo effect here.

What would be the primary goal around that? Like, is it just a good thing to have? Does it help with injury prevention? Does it help with recovery? Like, you know, some people just enjoy doing it, but is it, is there enough of a case there to, like, add it to somebody's, like, weekly routine if they're not already doing it?

So what did you have me do from there, and why?

Yeah, that's interesting.

It's also classic Andy in the sense that, uh, when you ask question A, I'm probably gonna give you answer B.

So, you know, there's tradition.

You want training advice, and I just totally go somewhere different.

Um, but what I actually thought was gonna be interesting about it was, you know, we don't have a lot of scientific data about things like that.

Um, if you look at research and physiology, we traditionally have, obviously, tons of exercise stuff, but when you're like, "Yo, I'm gonna ha- hike 800 miles," I'm like, "Well, actually, I don't know what's gonna happen physiologically." So I wanted to do a full blood panel and get as many markers as we possibly could.

Yeah.

So, so how do you feel about this?

You know, look, I had Lauren Kuensolempal, who was my former student, uh, now she's gone on to finish her PhD in protein metabolism.

Uh, you know, I had her on my show a while ago.

Uh, she's doing the best work of anybody in this field right now, and I'll just summarize my position really quickly.

I am so stoked that there's more and more energy going into female and women-specific recommendations.

That's awesome.

Like, here for it all.

Hmm.

Why not?

Look at the research on the most effective athletes.

They're almost always multi-sport athletes.

So whether we're talking about success in the sport itself, they run this stat every year at the Super Bowl.

Depending on the team, somewhere between 90% to 95% of the athletes in the Super Bowl were multi-sport athletes.

Very rarely do we see specialization work.

You also look at the research on post-career health.

The vast majority

So what are the progressive overload principles, um, that are most effective over time for strength and hypertrophy?

You have what we call your modifiable variables.

So this is a very short list of all the things you can modify, the different variables within your workout that can be modified that will change the outcome.

A fancy way of saying, if you do this differently, then you're gonna get a different result.

Um, so modifiable variables.

Um, the very first one of those is called choice.

So this is the exercise choice that you select.

[chuckles]

So go ahead and give examples though, 'cause some guys are hearing this and go like, "Well, he's not talking about this," or, "He's not talking about me." And I know the, the list could be endless, but like what comes to mind?

Sure.

Um, smoking cigarettes, drinking daily, uh, having wild changes in your daily schedule, so you stay up till 3:00 in the morning, then the next day you go to bed, um, you know, at different times, and your circadian rhythm is all over the place.

Um, burning all your mental health on politics and arguing over like that...

Now your work productivity went down, and so now you don't have time to do your training because you're too busy at work, and then you spend all damn day on Facebook.

Um, it's, it's that type of stuff whereYou know, if you're a 12-year-old, it, it's a really good analogy.

My friend Chris Williamson said this all the time.

Get past, like, your perceived limits," um, that type of thing.

Okay.

So she wakes up the next morning and goes, "Yeah, that, I'm a little tight, I feel it a little bit," we won.

If she wakes up anything more than that, I'm probably gonna back off.

Here's why.

It's not that I'm concerned that if she wakes up at a four or five out of 10 that we tore a muscle or we over-trained her.

That would not be happening.

But I'm very concerned with somebody who doesn't have a passion for this thing yet, that we go, "Oh my God, ugh, I gotta go train again, I'm gonna be so sore, and last time that I had to pick the kid up, and oh, then my shoulder hurt.

... you're listening to this.

What are some of the basics that you like to start

with? Yeah, so I remember this was your original question, and the way I started with that personal preference one is, because the way I like to frame this answer I don't want perfect being the enemy of good.

I don't want you thinking, I have to do these five training sessions per week, and if I can't do that, I'll do zero.

So my honest reality is, if you can do 20 minutes one time a day, that's better than zero.

If you can do that twice, take, great.

Like how much more can I take? Give me three, awesome.

Now can we slide that from 20 minutes to 40? Great, like I'll take as much as you give me.

Whether it's relative energy deficiency... or people that are over fasting, I think this can be hugely problematic that they're just under fueling their body chronically and habitually that is exacerbating a lot of the frustrating symptoms they're experiencing at this stage of life.

What's the most important thing we haven't spoken about? Y- you know, if there was one more thing you could add of all the things you know, that would allow Jennifer, who's a thirty-four-year-old single mother, or Dave, who's a black cab driver in London, the average person.

I think it is exciting what's coming in the world of human health, and I think it's helpful for people to know that stuff because a lot of the challenges we're facing are gonna get worse.

We have things that are going to be possible pretty soon.

Uh, kind of the stuff I'm talking about, this idea of precision exercise, precision nutrition, it's not really available to many people, too expensive, et cetera.

We're gonna cross those barriers pretty soon.

We are working on a project right now called the Human Digital Twin.

So this is a combination of, you know, a couple of my companies, so the sleep company, Apps at Rest, um, our blood work company, Vitality Blueprint, Springbok.

Yeah.

[laughs]

Figure that one thing out.

Is it your mental health? Is it your low back pain? Is it your nutrition? Is it your...

Like, what is the thing? And if I just said, "Hey, a year from now, you can wake up, and this thing will be gone," what would that thing be? And that's all I want you to think about this year.

That's it.

I want you...

And if you do that three years in a row, I mean, you're gonna look at this on a...

But if we could kind of dose it, what is like the minimal effective dose when it comes to training?

Mm-hmm

... technical breakdown, right? You're gonna like, your posture will break and like you'll come back.

But when we see whatever we're defining as a, as a major technical breakdown, then that's the limit.

And so in fact, I got a text on the way here.

One of our guys is preparing for a fight in China, and, um, he, he told me last night he had a PR in our endurance work, and this is a, an aerodyne piece that we do for rounds, and those rounds are cut off with technical breakdowns.

So this is a posture.

When he's leaning forward and the, the head starts flopping back and forth and his elbows start flying up, that's when we, like, cut him.

Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm.

There are far better technologies.

So it's not about my company, my sleep company or anything else.

It is about using the right tool for the right job.

And so when you get to levels of detail where you're makingLike decisions about chemicals that are gonna go in your body at high concentrations in the example of medications or supplements or changing a mattress or anything else, like there's better technology, right? So we are going to run those studies on people.

We're gonna have a full-time invir- environmental analysis going on in their bedroom.

We're measuring blood and urine.

Mm-hmm.

And so in the world of recovery, what are some must-haves?

Yeah, I think that the best way to think about recovery or really any modality, whether you walk away from this weekend, for those of you here, or you're listening at home on a podcast, if you leave here and go home with a list of 14 different things to do and 12 new products, you've messed the whole thing up.

That's never gonna get you recovery.

In fact, I'll show you some data later today that's gonna be pretty convincing, the fact that it's probably gonna make things a lot worse.

You should approach this podcast, you should approach social media or any book you read as trying to identify, "What is the specific piece of information that I can use to solve a specific problem?" And if you can't answer that, then the reality of it is, you probably fold and walk away from that modality.

We were talking backstage.

I can point any product out in this entire exhibition and probably show you either direct human evidence on it or maybe even indirect or plausibility.

(laughs)

It is the most one.

After that, I would say categorically, you now start thinking about energy in versus energy out.

So energy in could be a number of different things.

It could be total caloric intake is too high or too low.

Could be carbohydrates are too high or too low.

It could be a distribution.

It could be a timing.

there.