Douglas McGregor

So if we need to talk dollars and cents, organizational outcomes, like we can have that conversation.

Having said that, I think you and I have talked about this before, but there was this guy, Douglas McGregor, from the world of organizational behavior that came up with a theory years ago called Theory X and Theory Y of management.

Theory X managers think people don't wanna do their work.

The job of the manager is to make sure they do their work.

I want to shift gears and talk about the mid-November memo to withdraw from Somalia and Afghanistan.

His lawyer says, do you have a document that you can show us on this? As flagged in our email correspondence to you, this would be the mid-November memo that was described in peril that Douglas McGregor delivered to DOD.

Mr. Glabe says, right.

My question is, do you have a source for this purported memo other than a book by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa? Well, other DOD officials have spoken about the memo, and I can provide it to you as, Mr.

They came about through curiosity and a desire to make the world a better place.

and it kind of brings me back i think douglas mcgregor said it perhaps better than anyone with theory x and theory y and i'd always encourage people to think which do you believe in so theory x assumes that no one wants to do anything the only reason they do anything is if you incentivize and they essentially have no interest whatsoever in theory y is that these are capable curious hard-working people they want to work just as much as they want to go to bed we just are a hard-working species and there's plenty of evidence for that And I just think a lot of the corporate world is still built on that Theory X assumption that if we don't incentivize people, they're just not going to do anything.

If we don't have the right pay, they're not going to innovate.

But if we assume that that's a natural state first and that we're the ones getting in the way of that, that changes every calculus about what you do as an organization.

Euh, et à nouveau, la seule chose qui, qui change, c'est notre regard.

Euh, quelque part, mon, mon travail, euh, est une, une version quarante, cinquante ans plus tard d'un, du travail de, de, d'une personne qui s'appelle Douglas McGregor, qui avait, euh, cette fameuse théorie X et cette fameuse théorie Y, qui disait, euh : en fait, en tant que manager, on peut avoir deux regards sur nos employés.

Il y a un regard qui est : ben, les gens de nature sont quand même tous plus ou moins tire au flanc.

Euh, et donc si on leur met pas la pression, si on leur met pas des, des KPIs, si on les surveille pas un peu, ben ils, ils vont rien faire.

Euh, ou non, la nature en fait, la plupart des gens, ils se lèvent pour faire du bon travail et, euh, si on leur donne des bonnes conditions et qu'on les emmerde pas, ben ils vont faire du bon travail.

Et le génie de, de Douglas McGregor, quand il a étudié le truc, c'est que il s'est rendu compte en fait lequel des deux est vrai.

Est-ce que c'est la théorie X ou la théorie Y ? Et son génie, ça a été de dire : en fait, les deux sont vrais parce que les deux sont autoréalisateurs.

Si toi, Jean-Philippe, tu penses que les gens sont un peu tire-au-flanc, etc., qu'il faut les surveiller, tu vas les manager-

We call them In France, watermelon KPIs, because they usually green on the surface, but when you open them, it's red everywhere.

And you can't imagine it's even Douglas McGregor wrote about it, that people are so creative to beat the system.

Once you put them KPIs on, depending on KPIs, their bonus is measured, their promotion, they will manufacture you great green KPIs, formidable.

Right.