Yeah.

But what, what we saw was, first of all, there was a, even through all the years in Afghanistan, it just, it, it's a lot of that in- understanding of the, the cultural dynamics and what we deal with, we never really got completely trans- transferred back to Washington and understood.

You know, we, we, we got into this point in the time of nation-building there.

And, and there's a lot of comparisons to Iraq 'cause we were in Iraq by that time and, and the, I, I always, the, the never liked conversations when they compare Afghanistan to Iraq and vice versa, 'cause just, you can't, there's no comparison at all.

I mean, Iraq has an infrastructure.

Iraq has a more educated society.

Iraq has highwa- I mean, all this type of things, you know? Afghanistan has none of that.

Yeah, yeah.

But what changes did you witness in him?

You know, that's one of the things I, and I, first of all, we didn't know at the time that Hamid Karzai was going to be the president of Afghanistan for the next 12 years.

You could put yourself back in that timeframe.

Besides being an extremely impressive gentleman, I've always said that Karzai is one of the bravest men I've ever met in my life.

And I, and I still stick to that.

You know, he had a bounty on his head when we first went in, which was, you know, somewhere around $5 million.

I think it went up after that.

How was how were you finding those emotions to, I suppose, restrain your emotions when you came face to face with these people who, you know, directly or indirectly had their hands in the in American bloods? You know, with some of the Afghans, we knew that

Second

World War.

And then she, years later, she met my father, who's from the Texas, Oklahoma area.

He's of Scottish Irish descent.

And they had me.

And so I'm half Korean, half Texican or whatever you want to call it.

Uh, and so, uh, kind of always grew up with that influence from my mom, but also, you know, born in, born in, in, in, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, raised, spent a lot of my middle school, high school and college years in Texas.

But how much of interactions would you be having with the Taliban themselves?